Mijal: We are really excited and honored to be in conversation today with Zibby Owens. Zibby is an award-winning author, a bookfluencer, it’s a term that I learned right now, Zibby, as I was preparing to speak with you, founder and CEO of Zibby Media, which includes Zibby Books, the Totally Booked podcast network, Zibby’s bookshop retreats, a book club and more. After the Hamas attacks of October 7th, and the spike in anti-Semitism that followed in America and around the world. Zibby pivoted from a largely secular literary profile to an outspoken Jewish advocate. Zibby, before I ask you a bunch of questions, those of us who are getting to know more about bookfluencer and Zibby media, what’s the best way for people to learn more?
Zibby: They can, thank you so much for having me. They can go to Zibbymedia.com and learn more about all the things that we have to offer. We have a publishing company and a bookstore and a lot of other fun ways to learn about books and what to read next.
Mijal: That’s awesome. Zibby, I read that you have described yourself saying that before October 7th, you never planned to be publicly Jewish. Could you just explain what does that mean?
Zibby: I feel like before October 7th, there was no such thing really as to be or not to be publicly Jewish these days. But what I meant by that is I used to post. It was part of who I am. And I would post on social media if it was a Passover and there was a beautiful table setting or I was lighting the Shabbat candles or something like that. But it never really intersected with my professional lifeuntil after October 7th when I tried to use as much of my professional platform or any resources I had really to help and draw attention to what was going on. And I’ve continued to do that now. I’ve never hidden that I was Jewish at all, but in terms of advocacy and organization of it, that has all been new.
Mijal: Was there a moment that prompted you to almost like think, well, I need to own my Jewish identity in a way that I wasn’t owning before?
Zibby: And I think I was owning it. I just wasn’t regularly posting about it unless something was happening of note. But after October 7th, immediately I posted about it and not only on my own Instagram, but I talked to my business partner. was like, well, we also have to post this on all of our other Instagram outlets and say, obviously we’re in support of Israel and everything. It seemed like a total no brainer.
Obviously, she agreed and Mercedes is my business partner and we posted it both on the official channels and unofficial channels. So guess that was the first time that it sort of intersected in that way.
Mijal: I’m just curious, what was the reaction like for an audience that perhaps hadn’t seen you before, know, posting so much about Israel or Judaism to suddenly see you in this very tragic moment come out in support of Israel?
Zibby: Well, I think this is probably pretty common for other people who have been speaking out publicly on behalf of the Jewish people right now against hate and all that. But from the beginning, so many people unfollowed me, who I had considered friends, colleagues, all of that. But over time, other new Jewish people I hadn’t known have sort come into the fold. Jewish people started thanking me for speaking out.
And then I feel like I had betrayal after betrayal of people who have been on my podcast. You are podcasters. You know what that’s like. It’s like an intimate relationship you have. spend half an hour at somebody and all that who suddenly were just so violently against Jewish people. It blew my mind. Not to sound naive, obviously, I know about anti-Semitism and blah, blah, blah, but this level and the shock.
value that everybody experienced or the October 8 phenomenon of the American, particularly, know, just virulence, hatred that was right here all along and that I understood as I went. That was a shock.
Mijal: You know, use the word betrayal and I think people often talk about kind of like former colleagues or friends, kind of like seeing them say things about Israel or Jews that have been really shocking. I’m curious for you how much of that was things that you were just kind of like watching online versus were these personal interactions, like conversations that people were actually reaching out to you and upset about your support of Israel?
Or give us a little bit of the texture of what that betrayal felt like or looked like.
Zibby: It was emails, DMs from people that I knew. It was people canceling my podcast. It was bookstores saying they would no longer carry books that my company published and literally explaining. And this didn’t happen immediately after October 7th. A lot of it started a month later when I pulled my sponsorship from the National Book Awards because the National Book Foundation. Well, that’s a whole other story. But anyway, it became a very public signal of my support of Israel. After that happened, a lot of people, bookstores would email me and say FYI. I mean, it still happens. Somebody last week turned down something I wanted to do because of my stance on the National Book Foundation Awards in November of that year.
It was systemic and professional colleagues. It was less friends of mine. My friends are my friends and they, it didn’t happen to anybody who I had known just personally. It was more in the professional sphere, writers who I had gotten to know and worked with. But they become friends. I I thought I was friends with them. it, and I, know, things get in the way. And it also came,in places like just seeing all the posts and people’s stories that are so wrong and reporting fake news and just all of it. And one time I reached out to someone and I was like, listen, like, I just want you to know that this affects me very personally as a Jewish person. Like this, really hurts when you post Free Gaza over and over. that is, and I’ve had, I had several conversations like that with, with various people and they said,to my face, know, you I’m sorry you felt that way. But they didn’t change what they were doing nor did their behavior change after. So, well.
Mijal: Yeah. Well, Zibby, it’s interesting. feel like you’re describing almost like two different but overlapping things. One is just people, you know, posting, you know, outrageous things around about Jews or Israel. And the other is actually being canceled because you’re a Zionist, right? Like actually people refusing to be in conversation with you, not wanting to engage in any way and almost like blacklisting and say like the moment that you express support, not even of the Israeli government, but just of like the fact that Israel exists or Israel’s you know, war against Hamas or even defending, advocating for hostages, that immediately leads to like a sort of canceling, which should worry all of us who believe in an open society and robust discourse across difference.
Zibby: Mm-hmm.
Zibby: Somebody this week literally publicly asked for all publicists to stop sending me galleys or authors to go off, cancel podcasts, say no, don’t even reply to my emails. I’m like, okay.
Noam: From a Jewish identity perspective, keeping you outside of their fray. What does that do to your Jewish sense of self? Does it do anything? Does it make you feel more Jewish? Does it make you feel resentful of your Judaism? What does it make you feel?
Zibby: No, no, it never makes me feel resentful of my Judaism at all. It makes me feel outraged and…
I just feel like everyone has it, not everyone, everyone has it so wrong. Like if they just understood. That’s why I keep like writing about this and explaining it again. I’m like, no, no, no. Like you’re under the influence of all of these ideals that have been propagated and you’re just, you’re like the sucker in this situation, right? Just like, like buying into this propaganda. Like, don’t you get it? Like I want to wake everybody up.
Because otherwise I can’t believe that they would just feel this. there has been obviously such a concerted attempt to get this information and point of view out there. I was with my husband, we were and my brother, co-producers of October 8th, the movie where it literally shows how this festered in the US. I’m so disappointed in the people who have fallen victim to this who… ignore the retractions of major media when they publish something and then later say it wasn’t true like that just happened again. So in terms of my own Jewish identity, no, I feel even more strongly Jewish. feel just incredulous that people I considered sort of smart, educated people are falling victim to these lies. And as we all know from knowing our history quite well as every
Jewish person who’s ever gone to Hebrew school or would ever know, it’s like, saw this, we know where these signs go. We’ve seen this happen before. And so I just never thought it could happen again, but of course it could. So here we are.
Mijal: Yeah. You know, it’s really inspiring to hear you speak and I am moved by the lack of ambivalence in the way you are speaking right now in terms of your values and your decision to not you said you have always owned your Judaism, but to very publicly own it at a time where that carries real cost. The question that I have and I’m trying to articulate it is I know a lot of people in in in similar positions, to yours. And I have noticed that some of them have done what you’ve done is they have owned their Judaism. They have sometimes identified as an October 8th Jew and they have been willing to take on professional costs for the sake of what they want to stand for. And then I know other individuals who feel very strongly about their Judaism, who feel, you know, inwardly that the Jewish cause isn’t the right.
Um, but either it’s too hard to take on the professional costs or so I want to make it a bit more nuanced or they’ll say, actually it is better for me to stay in relationship and not shake the boat too much because then eventually, you know what I mean? Like I can do some other things in the world. Uh, and, so it’s almost like either there’s like a real fear of losing influence for its own sake or losing influence for the sake of doing good in the world.
Zibby: Mm-hmm.
Mijal: So I’m curious, do you have a sense of what has shaped the different path of what has led some individuals to stand up publicly, being willing to take on professional costs and other individuals to at this point say, this is not what I’m doing right now?
Zibby: Yeah, I have thought about this and sometimes it’s what people have to lose and if they can afford the reputational damage in whatever line of work they’re in or it has significant consequences. For example, in the anthology that I edited called On Being Jewish Now, which had 75 essays by various authors and notables, one person
had written an essay for the collection and pulled it out at the last minute because they had a film deal that they felt would fall apart should they be in the collection. And they couldn’t afford that on many levels. couldn’t afford it in their personal life. Financially, they didn’t want to let go of this particular work milestone of theirs that they had been working so hard on. And they didn’t, they couldn’t afford to jeopardize it for many reasons.
So they pulled out of the book. Look, everyone has to make their own decisions. I am not judging anybody else’s behavior. We have to just do what we all feel comfortable with in the moment and what we feel we can take on. I’m in no position to say this person should have had the
the essay in the collection. Like, people have to make choices for them. I will say I get upset when people don’t, when people go along with…
fake information and I, you know, obviously I’m upset when people do a lot of things, but, in terms of people who say, I’m not going to post about this, but I have a lot of influence within my organization in other ways, or I’m doing things more quietly. You just don’t see on social, but that doesn’t mean I’m not speaking out. That’s fine. As long as you’re advocating in some way, as long as you’re not just passively accepting.
Zibby: what’s happening, but doing something in your own way, that’s great. But again, I don’t think that anyone gets anywhere by pointing fingers and saying this person should speak up and shaming people into speaking up. And that’s not sort of the lane that I’m in. I feel like we all have to make our own decisions in life and whatever we can do to help, great. And hopefully you’re not hurting and.
Mijal: Right. And we all have different levers of influence and different contexts where we can be.
Zibby: and all of that.
Noam: Yeah, I’m thinking, like names like Scott Galloway, who used his platform to,
Mijal: NYU professor and podcaster.
Noam: Yeah, But Scott Galloway used his platform to speak about the ills of the world speaking so heinously against Israel, I think that he actually lost a lot of followers and I’ve noticed, he spoke about that actually, I’ve noticed that he doesn’t really speak about it much anymore and I kind of get it. Like I’m not saying like you, Zibby, I’m not saying right, wrong, not casting aspersions, but there’s such a cost. And when we speak about Israelis and the sacrifices, and it’s very different, very, very, very different, I’ll say it again.
Zibby: Yeah.
Noam: But when we think about the concept of sacrifice, we tend to think of it as something that Israelis have done for the Jewish people. From Jewish people in the United States of America and non-Jewish people in the United States of America and, you know, Muslims, Christians, Jews, when people choose to speak out for the defense of the Jewish state and not taking a specific political position, but defense of the Jewish state and the ability for Israel to remain in a place that is free.
and equal and Jewish at the same time, all those three things. And there’s a cost to that. There’s a sacrifice to that. That’s also something that I think people should pay attention to and appreciate. And it sounds like, Zibby, that’s something that you’ve definitely done and you’ve sacrificed in that way.
Zibby: I have, but I feel like what I’ve gained is so much better. I don’t care about followers who I lost to, it turns out, were antisemitic. Like, okay, great, goodbye. I’m not in the game of having numbers for numbers sake. I want to have a community of people who I like and respect and who are, you know, all of that. And I’ve gained access to a much broader community of Jewish people all over the world who I might never have met or wouldn’t be DMing with or whatever. yes, I think of course there’s a cost and it’s, you know, some nights it really gets me down. Not the personal cost, but just like the, you know, my gosh, you know, now what? Now what’s going to happen? You know, it just feels overwhelming when it feels like sometimes
all the speaking out and the books and the moves and all the things aren’t moving the needle.
Noam: But then we all come together. But then we get to hang out, Zibby. That’s the thing. I didn’t know you. I didn’t know, but now I know Zibby. This is so exciting.
Zibby: Exactly. That’s right. That’s right. I know. that’s what I’m saying. Like connections to more people who I’m excited to get to know. And that’s great. So goodbye. You know, you don’t have to be my people. You can just go on your, you know, we can’t, we can’t, though it pains me to say, you know, not everyone is going to like me and it’s okay.
Mijal: And I think there’s something just so Jewish there in terms of Jewish history that I think many times facing different challenges in different countries at different times, we’ve turned towards each other. That’s been almost like the unifying thread that we can kind of trace from Aleppo to Lithuania to whatever time period we’re thinking of.
Zibby: Well, actually, was Rabbi Shore, founder of OpenDor Media, who I went to coffee with maybe a year ago. I don’t know. It was a while ago. And I sat down with him and I was like, OK, I’m doing everything I can and it’s not working. Like, I cannot get rid of antisemitism. Like, nothing I try is working. And he like laughed at me basically in a very kind way as he is and was like, no, no, like you’re focused on the wrong thing. You Can’t convert the haters. Can’t fight hate. All you can do is build. You can build coalition. You can build community among the Jewish people. That is what you should focus on. So it actually really shifted my mindset and continues to based on that one conversation.
Noam: Wow, shout out to Rephael Shore.
Mijal: That’s beautiful. That’s beautiful. I want to talk about what it means to build. But before that, I want to ask one more question. All of us right now in video have books in our background. My kids laugh at me because we get Amazon boxes. And they know that 80% of the time it’s Ima feeding her book addiction. Just like buying new books, it’s terrible. I should really get used to the public library.
So I’ve really always thought of myself as a reader and I love reading so much. And I’ve also been hearing all these murmurings from authors who are from Jewish authors who are telling me. So I’m just sharing Zibby what I’ve been hearing and I want to hear your reflection as somebody who actually understands the industry, right? And as being part of it and help shape it. But I’ve heard from a lot of authors who say, if you are Jewish right now, if you are Zionist, no matter, like it doesn’t matter how left-wing you are. If you want to write about Jewish things, it’s getting really hard from what I’m hearing. The rumors are that it’s getting increasingly harder to actually get a book published by like, you know, like a mainstream publishing house. So I’m curious, if you can tell us for those of us who are readers, but who don’t understand the ins and outs of what it means to get a book out there in the world, what does it look like right now if you are an author who wants to write about whatever thing you want to write about, but you happen to be Jewish and perhaps also a Zionist?
Zibby: Look, the publishing industry, it’s hard to get books published no matter what, whoever you are, because so few make it through even though it feels like they’re a bazillion. It is always hard. I will say books about this subject from a Zionist point of view, it’s tough. It’s very tough. are getting, people are being asked to sort of tone down the Jewishness of their characters. Someone I know was asked to change the last name of a character in a children’s book because it sounded too Jewish. So all this stuff is happening behind the scenes and I think people are very wary because bookstores are now often not accepting events with Jewish authors if they feel there’s like a risk or politicizing, I think, think basically there are a lot of really weak people out there who don’t feel like they can have a Zionist author in their bookstore or whatever.
Noam: So Zionist, I just want to say Zionist means, and there’s a lot of Zionisms out there. Zionist means someone who believes that the Jewish people have a right to have an ancestral, Zionism means that Jewish people have a right to their ancestral homeland, which is the land of Israel, and to live in the Jewish state called Israel. That’s, and have sovereignty and autonomy. That’s what it means. So you’re saying, they’re saying that’s not allowed to believe that.
Zibby: I know, I’m sorry. I know.
Zibby: The word, as you all know, Zionism has been sort of co-opted to stand for Jews. So it’s not like they’re really debating whether or not all these nuances, right? They’re just using whatever word that sounds a little bit better. But yeah, they’ll have like a free Palestine sticker on the door and they won’t put out any Jewish books. they, know, look, everybody’s welcome to do it. Not welcome. Everyone can do what they want. It’s their own store. Not advocating book banning or anything like that. Don’t misinterpret it. I’ve had many friends get their book events canceled by bookstores who don’t want to align with someone with these points of view. So it’s tough. It is definitely tough. Yeah.
Mijal: Yeah. You know, it’s funny, I had a conversation with, with someone in the publishing industry lately, an agent, and I asked straight out and they, you know, they don’t just work on Jewish books. And I asked, would you work with someone Jewish or Zionist right now? But they were like, yeah, we will. It’s OK. We have a lot of points of view. So I’m hearing, you know, there’s some packets of people who are just willing to stand up.
And Zibby, one of the things that I have been wondering about, almost like comparing in my mind, is I keep thinking like, let’s say four years ago or five years ago, if you were an author who wanted to ask questions about the policy of racial equity in America or have questions around DEI or five years ago, if you were a gender critical feminist, which was a term for feminists, especially in Britain, but other places who had questions around gender ideology, you would have a really hard time getting your book out. So I guess what I’m thinking about, and I don’t think we have the answer, time will tell, but how much is this going to be a wave that is going to dissipate, the way that it dissipated in those areas, and how much is something we’re going to be contending with for a long time. Zibby, I wanted to ask you another question. When I’ve read up about you, I’ve seen that you have really spoken about yourself, not only as a business woman, as a lover of books, as a connector of people, but also as a mother, as somebody who takes seriously what it means to teach your children and to speak about what it means to be a Jewish woman. from where I’m sitting, I have actually, you know, preparing for this conversation, I was thinking about the people that I interact with often. And I have like this network of, I’m to call them Jewish moms who are some of the most passionate, creative, talented, stubborn in the best of ways, determined, you know, like, like, like I want them on my side for everything and for always. And I have seen them rise up, whether it’s in like, like city council education, this in public, like whatever industry it is, you will have a Jewish mom, would say here really stepping up and fighting.
Noam: It’s a great call. It’s a great call. Yeah.
Mijal: And I’m curious, first of all, if you’ve seen this and second of all, I’ve been wondering, what is it that, why is it that Jewish moms are rising to all of these positions? Like, is there something missing, let’s say, like in the Jewish communal ecosystem that, you know, the Jewish moms uniquely bring?
Zibby: Yeah, I love this shout out to Jewish moms.
Noam: It’s great, great, Jewish mom. What’s going on over here? I’m just getting sidelined over here? Okay, it’s fine, I’m okay with that, I’m okay with that, Jewish moms unite, let’s do it.
Mijal: As a Jewish mom, I’m sorry, Noam, you’re good. It’s okay.
Zibby: I mean, Jewish moms, by putting Jewish kids in the world, I think feel particularly invested in keeping the world safe. And it is not just theoretical that we want things to be better. We have kids out there who we want to live in a better world. So perhaps it’s that it’s like,
It affects us more personally, maybe. I mean, it doesn’t, but I’m just saying like when you have, you know, I remember when I was like growing up and they’re like, you know, protect the environment, you know, because in 50 years, like, you know, I’m like, I bet I’ll have kids and maybe I’ll think about it more, but I’m not going to be alive. when it’s like, these people and their kids, God willing, and everybody are going to be affected, then
I have to fight to make sure the world is the safer place for them. So, and I think that that sort of mama bear instinct to protect is what is right. It’s energizing us all. Like, no, no, no, this has to stop. We have to protect our people and the people, our people can be more than just our kids. is our tribe and we have that instinct in us and I think it’s being activated right now.
Mijal: I’m going to think about that, about the protective impulse and what it means for moms to channel that at this moment. also think there’s something, again, I don’t mean to be like idealizing too much because at different time I can speak about all the ways that I can be, I don’t mean to idealize motherhood, but I do think that there’s something in the parenting experience, I’ll expand it, Noam, in the parenting experience that leads you to think about building things not only within institutions, right? Like you really have to think, you know, like you’re constructing something and you have to be creative almost, like how do I build something where I have ownership and stake in it in a way that somebody else is not doing it for me. So, so that’s, I don’t know, that’s something that I have been.
Noam: So Mijal, I actually, as someone who does not identify as a Jewish mom, I want to actually double down on what you both just said about Jewish moms. I’ve been doing with my team a tremendous amount of work in New York City and other cities, in independent schools and working with the top schools in the country to teach about Israel Zionism, Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Courageous conversations all these things and it’s very very often that Jewish moms Jewish moms are the ones very involved in all these top independent schools around the country saying We have to do a better job with education. We have to do something about this It is Jewish their Jewish dads also, but I’m telling you this is not scientific. It’s Jewish moms It’s Jewish moms who are saying we are gonna we’re gonna make sure that real good education happens in our schools
Zibby: Mm-hmm.
Noam: So I wanna name that.
Zibby: I feel like, I also think moms in general, when they see a problem not being fixed, just step up and do it. mean, mothers against drunk driving, like gun safety. mean, moms are just like, know, Shannon Watts was just on my podcast. they just like step up and they do it. If it’s not there, they make what they need.
Noam: Yeah, mad, mad back in the day. Yeah.
Noam: Wait, Mijal, I want to get into a question to Zibby about books. But can I make fun of you first for a second, Mijal? Okay. Your vice that you just made, that you just said about yourself was accumulation of books. What an amazing vice that you have, Mijal. That is a good vice that you have, though. I gotta say.
Mijal: Go for it.
Mijal: It’s expensive now, it’s getting bad.
Zibby: I joke that I buy books and not shoes. I don’t have a shoe thing. I’m not a fashion person. I’m a book person.
Noam: That’s, these are good vices to have. These are good vices to have. We have just a couple minutes left to have this conversation with Zibby. One of the things that you mentioned and spoke about and what you do is you live inside books. So if someone were to ask you for a stack of books to help them feel their way into Jewish life right now, what stack of books would you hand them? Not necessarily to explain Judaism, but to make someone feel something essential about being Jewish today.
Zibby: Okay. I would pick my own book on being Jewish now because it’s not really about me. It’s 75 essays by other Jewish writers and it’s written in a style of a friend to a friend versus more theoretical or fact, It’s about emotions and experiences. So I would say on being Jewish now, edited by Zibby Owens, I would say…
Noam: Let’s do it. Everyone, everyone, let’s do it on being Jewish now. Everyone. Okay, I have it too. Stop showing off. I have it too. Just not in this bookshelf, in that bookshelf.
Mijal: I have it by the way, it’s like in one of my bookshelves here. It’s wonderful. Okay, I’m sorry.
Zibby: I would say 10.7 by Lee Yaron. I don’t know if you have read that. It’s amazing. It’s coming out in paperback soon. I would say Noah Tishby and Emmanuel Achos, Uncomfortable Conversations with a Jew, because I do think that for many people it explains the history in easy to understand terms.
Mijal: Mm. Yep. Yep. It’s haunting.
Noam: yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Zibby: Maybe we should recommend Raphael Shore’s book, Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Jew, which has another take on Jew hatred and where all of it comes from. I mean, feel like this is the question I get the most from my kids. Like, I don’t get it. Why does everyone hate us so much? So he does a good job unpacking that question.
Noam: Four, that’s four, that’s pretty good so far.
Zibby: That’s four. David Denby just wrote Eminent Jews about four very public accomplished Jews, which I think sets a good example for how we can all achieve in the creative arts. I don’t know. I have a whole shelf. Or just like, Fleshman is in Trouble by Taffy Brittes-Rachner. And just like dive into fiction.
Mijal: Yeah, it’s funny, you know, I’ve been actually just going back to Jewish history, just feeling the need to understand how Jews lived through times that we thought were left a long time ago. So I just started a book, The Mannequins by Sam Schellman, which is it’s interesting. It’s about how Jews in the banking industry in New York really like build tremendous capital and help shape New York and America. And a lot of it was from for me, it’s also seeing, how do they live as Jews at a time in which there is open discrimination? so that’s, I know for me there’s something very powerful right now in terms of going backwards to help us move forward.
Zibby: There’s also a book by Olivia Campbell, and I’m forgetting the name of it, but it details the period of time in academia about how a lot of scientists in the Albert Einstein time period were booted out of their universities and how American universities actually helped out, and that was really interesting too.
Noam: Was it Women in White Coats, Sisters in Science? Women in White, okay. There you go, there you go. And let me just jump into this conversation for a second. Let me tell you the book that I just read that I was excellent, excellent, excellent. Also a little, it’s more historical, biblical, whatever, but there is a great series by Jewish Lives. And David Wolpe wrote, who’s Michal’s colleague at the Maimonides Fund, both scholars and residents there, he wrote the biography of David, King David. I’m telling you.
Zibby: Yes, thank you.
Zibby: Tell me, tell me.
Noam: It is so good. The writing is so exquisite and I felt it was so relevant to today. So if it’s about Jewish identity or if it’s about Jewish history or the Hebrew Bible, check all these books out. Do it.
Zibby: Okay, wait, I have to correct myself. It wasn’t Women in White Coats. That was her last book. It’s Sisters in Science, How Four Women Physicists Escaped Nazi Germany and Made Scientific History by Olivia Campbell. I would recommend that as well.
Mijal: Yeah.
Noam: That’s right.
Mijal: Amazing. Zibby, one last question for you. We are clearly not going back to the normal pre-October 7th days. I don’t even know if those were normal or those were the exception. And there’s a lot of Jewish creators who are really either fighting to stay in the mainstream or they are speaking up and carrying costs or they’re trying to be creative and build new things. What advice would you give to Jewish creatives, Jewish writers or artists, who are just really trying to figure out their public persona right now in relationship to who they are as Jews.
Zibby: Now it’s more important than ever to create, write, make art, do all the things, show off what makes Jews so special because it’s not hard to figure out, right? You just have to let it all out there, make things, be great examples. Like we are all examples of what it means to be Jewish and we have to create and do as much as possible. You can pretend like you’re not openly Jewish, you can try to hide it like you’re not actually really hiding it is what I would say. I would say other people are going to think it about you anyway, so it’s kind of your choice if you want to own it or not.
Mijal: Love it. Well, thank you so much, Zibby. It’s really wonderful to get to know you and to also learn about all the work of Zibby Media. I encourage everybody to check out. I know I follow you, Zibby, on Instagram, and I really enjoy hearing from you and getting your book recommendations. And it’s really inspiring to hear your journey and what it means to be someone who has spoken up, has paid a price.
is determined to keep speaking up and is also insisting that we have to talk about all the joy and the treasures that we get as Jews when we speak up and we find each other.
Noam: Yeah, so I wanna also say, be like, everyone should be like Mijal. Have a vice for consuming book and make sure, make sure that you get the book on being Jewish now and add that to your collection. I’m so excited that we had Zibby Owens on our podcast, on our show on Wondering Jews. Zibby, thank you so much for being here. It’s been so much fun having this very serious conversation with you. So thanks for being here.
Zibby: Thank you for having me, I really appreciate it.
Music in the background
Noam: Wondering Jews is a production of Unpacked, part of Open Door Media. Today’s episode was hosted by me, Noam Weissman. Our producers are Rifke Stern and Michael Weber. We would love to hear what this conversation sparked for you. We’d love, love, hearing from you. Email us at WonderingJews at unpacked.media or find us on social at WonderingJews.
Mijal: And me, Mijal Bitoon.
Mijal: And if you appreciated this conversation, please rate us, review the podcast. It really helps get new listeners to find us and for us to continue building this amazing community. Thank you.
Noam: Thank you. See you next week.