Noam: Hey everyone, without Mijal here this week, I am in LA for an Unpacking Israeli History live show with Ronan Bergman. I’m super pumped for it. And I’m pumped to be here also because I get to record in person with today’s very special guest, Jonah Platt.
Jonah is an actor, he’s an artist, an advocate for Israel and the Jewish people. And you’re a fellow podcast host.
Jonah: Yes, sir.
Noam: And we did a podcast together on being Jewish with Jonah Platt.
Jonah: That’s right.
Noam: And that was a lot of fun.
Jonah: Sure was. A lot of fun.
Noam: And so it’s awesome to swap seats now for me to be in the chair that I get to ask the questions and to pepper you with questions. Do you remember something I said to you when you were on when I was on your podcast? I said, what’s the difference between being a good guest and a good host?
Jonah: I remember what I said. The guest doesn’t have to do, do any work?
Noam: No work. That’s the best part.
Jonah: The host has to prep. I just showed up.
Noam: You just show up and I’m interested and you get to be interesting. That’s the whole idea.
Jonah: I hope so.
Noam: Let’s do it.
Jonah: Exactly.
Noam: So Jonah, you have a very famous public persona.
Jonah: I wouldn’t call it very-
Noam: Okay, in the Jewish world, what celebrity would you say? A, B, C, D, what are you?
Jonah: Jewish world? I’m like a- I’m like a… B.
Noam: Okay, so that’s great. I’ll take a Jew. A B Jewish celebrity. But what are the things that you’ve done? Now I want to talk you all about your Jewish journey, everything that you do about being Jewish with Jonah Platt, like how we got there. But what are the things that you’ve done? You told me you did a show in front of 18,000 people, three different times. What was that show?
Jonah: So now we’re talking pre pre Jewish era.
Noam: Pre yeah.
Jonah: So that show that you’re talking about was in 2014 I had the amazing good fortune to be in a production of the musical Hair at the Hollywood Bowl. Historic venue, 18000 people.
And did it three times and it’s you know outdoors. It’s amazing, that show, Hair, everybody’s on stage together the whole time, amazing vibe. I got to be naked in one part of it. You got him. Yes, so you’ve got it got to be so let me do that So my wife I met doing this show
Noam: Okay, before she saw it or after she saw it?
Jonah: we got married after. Right. So she was one of the dancers. She was the dance captain. I was one of the principals, like one of the named character actors. None of the named character actors were supposed to get naked and all the dancers were supposed to get naked. My wife goes, I’m absolutely not getting naked. And I go, can I please get naked? So that’s me and my wife.
Noam: That’s great. Okay, that is very different than the way my wife and I met. So I’m happy. I’m happy. This is a great story. It worked out. And you have children. How old are they?
Jonah: We have three children. Six and a half, almost three, five months.
Noam: Wow, congrats on the five months.
Jonah: Thank you, she’s doing awesome.
Noam: Okay. Boys, girls.
Jonah: Boy, girl. Boy, girl, girl.
Noam: So I am boy, girl, girl, girl. I have four kids. Boy, girl, girl, girl. Wow. So I’m just telling you. I’m just saying. Because you’re boy, girl, girl. Yeah. You might also end up being boy, girl, girl, girl. Anything’s possible. Anything. I-
Jonah: I likely wouldn’t because both my second and third child, both my daughters, as my wife likes to say, were made in a dish. And so we chose girls. And I think if we were going to have a fourth, which I don’t think we are, anything’s possible. I would probably push for a boy to balance the scales a little bit. But even as I’m saying this out loud, my wife’s like, absolutely not. I just hear her like, no way. But I say never say never. Let’s wait a year. She’s only five months. Let’s see how we feel.
Noam: Do you consider yourself a girl dad? you have a son?
Jonah: Hell yeah.
Noam: But if you have a son, do have to be a girl dad?
Jonah: Of course.
Noam: No, I don’t think that’s as simple as that.
Jonah: It’s definitely that simple. Now if you’re, I’m a dad with a girl. It’s strictly girl.
Noam: I think my brother, my older brother has four daughters, he’s like, I’m a girl dad. You, Noam, you have a son and three daughters so you’re not a girl dad.
Jonah: I reject it wholeheartedly. I reject the premise. I get to be both a boy dad and a girl dad.
Noam: Done, that has been solved. Let’s talk about, so this is your father of three, you met your wife when you were naked, and now we get to the story of being Jewish with Jonah Platt. And here’s my question, why are you so obsessed with being Jewish?
Jonah: It’s weird, right? Why am so obsessed? I’m obsessed because somebody has to be. That’s honestly some part, like that’s the truth. It’s like, this is the moment. Things have been crappy for Jews before October 7th. It wasn’t like we were all hunky dory, everything’s perfect.
And then out of the blue, my God, all this hate and violence and blah, you know, I don’t need to tell you the statistics on anti-Jew hate in this country were like doubling, doubling, doubling, like year after year after year. Just not everybody was really paying attention to it or taking it seriously. I was one of the people noticing that and taking it seriously. So already I’ve sort of been in the space and been paying attention and I’m a naturally curious person who likes to self educate. So I’ve been curious about Israel and Judaism and life and things and consuming things.
Then October 7th happens and it just felt so natural to be spending all of my time and energy in this space where it was so needed, where what could be more important when our backs are against the wall and like the rug’s been pulled out from under us and this is, I just don’t know what else I would be doing.
It’s sort of crazy to me when you take a step back you like look at the the scale and the stakes of the moment and at the time I was like I was literally starring in a play at the time it’s called The Engagement Party it was at the Geffen Theater, amazing playhouse actually like 2 miles from where we’re sitting right now that I’d always wanted to perform at and I got to do this incredible play, amazing people, amazing director. And I was so glad to be in that play because you know be craziness online.
October 7 things by day and then I get to put it away for an hour at night. But as soon as I finished that play, it was like, well, what am I, I have X amount of hours to spend today. Am I going to spend them like prepping this audition to be a guest star on season 27 of Grey’s Anatomy, be a guy with a nail in his hand?
Noam: Just saying my wife would really have a pretty yeah, she’s still going through it
Jonah: I know that would be my wife too. She’s watching like, Oh yeah. But, or would I be like standing up to like help my people in their great moment of need of my lifetime. It’s just like totally no comparison for me.
Noam: So 27th season verse, here’s your opportunity to do something. So it really was, in many ways, you’re an October 8th activist. Meaning, the way you just described it is kind of like forever you come from a family, and I want to get to this in a bit, that cares a tremendous amount about Judaism. This has been part of your life forever. You’ve been obsessed with Judaism for a very long time. Your family. So then what got you going then? It was October 7th?
Jonah: My family.
Noam: Your family.
Jonah: Not me personally. So it was growing already organically, but October 7th really poured gasoline on the fire. And not in a conscious way. was not like, now is the time where I should do this. It was like, there’s a fire. I gotta put it out. I didn’t really think about it.
Noam: It’s amazing. just think there’s a biblical verse that, if you know me well, you know this is my obsession. It’s called Esther 4:14. So my wife even got me a shirt that says Esther 4:14. It says in Hebrew, it’s, umi yode’im la’et kazot, hegat l’malchut. Which means who knows if, for this time you arrived at your position of privilege. Right. Right. So, and this is the lesson that Mordechai says to Esther in the story of Esther and like, hey, like this is your moment. And I feel like for a number of people, specifically you, you felt that moment and said, okay, I got to do something about this. And this is and you’re doing a lot.
Jonah: Yeah, so thank you. So thank you. So let me let me tell you this about I told you about my children boy girl girl girl I have also I have two brothers and a sister.
Noam: Two brothers and two sisters. One more girl. So we are, we’re similar to each other, but we also have some differences. I want to, I want to hear a little bit about how you were raised. You just mentioned earlier that you were not obsessed with Judaism, but your family was. And I just want to say this, a fun fact about your, about your family. Your father grew up next door to where my older brother lives right now.
Jonah: Really?
Noam: Yes.
Jonah: Literally next door?
Noam: Long Meadow.
Jonah: That’s amazing. Small Jewish world!
Noam: So I want to know what what was tell me a little bit more about your family and how you were raised Jewishly.
Jonah: You know, it’s funny because I’m thinking about it literally right now. You the way I was raised is probably, generally speaking, how Jews have long been raised, which is like, you’re a Jew. So everything about your life is in some way influenced by that. So like, I never remember a time not feeling Jewish. The holidays all the time, Jewish day school, Jewish songs, Shabbat every Friday, my parents, my aunts, my uncles and cousins all equally invested, the my parents generation, all leaders in their Jewish communities, my grandparents leaders in their Jewish communities, just like who we are. It’s just like not even a something to think about. It’s just, oh, you grow up and you’re Jewish and you give back to your community and that’s it. So I was steeped in it always.
And like, every human being you have to find your own way through the things that you’re given as a kid that may or may not end up jiving with the adult that you’re going to become. And so I had plenty of rebellious moments. Certainly the most rebellious of my five of my four. Yeah. Five siblings. Yeah. You know, I was the one I certainly like ditched prayers the most at summer camp and got the most detentions in prayers in the day school and, bad boy. Yeah, just I I
Noam: You didn’t you want to do the Shema you weren’t so you weren’t down for the Shema
Jonah: I wasn’t down for, and this is sort of me writ large, I’m not down for no logic. Like, if you’re gonna tell me you have to do this, I need to understand why I’m doing it in a way that connects with me. Not just, we say you have to do this, so you gotta do it. And I felt like so much of the practice in those spaces is this is just what we do. And as an adult, I’m in a way grateful for that because if it was up to me, I probably wouldn’t have shown up.
But I did show up and now I have all this knowledge, even though it was sort of forced on me that I maybe hated at the time. But like now I know how to wrap tefillin and read the Torah and lead the service and X, and Z.
Noam: So you have the skills.
Jonah: I have the skills, I have the literacy. But I was always, you know, I was always the one questioning everything, which the good teachers and the good rabbis were like, I like this kid, like I want this guy in my class. And the ones who couldn’t handle that were like get this kid out of my class I’m trying to teach a lesson he’s asking me all these questions I can’t handle.
Noam: Yeah, here’s the problem. Teachers often forget that the subject is not the content of what you’re teaching. The subject is the student that’s learning. That should be the subject itself. The subject is not the content of what you’re teaching. The subject is the student itself. So if the student is asking questions, that’s a good thing.
I teach every Shabbat afternoon. I teach a group of sixth and seventh graders and I teach them Talmud every Shabbat afternoon. And I give awards out at the end. And one of the awards that they all try to get is best question of the day, not best answer, but best question of the day. I want to know, are you thinking? Are you asking? Are you grappling? Are you wrestling? You like that’s what I think it means to have a real educational experience is to actually ask and explore and be curious.
Jonah: One of these things that feels now, and I can’t believe this is the first time I’m like really clicking into it, literally, just hearing you talk about that but my parshah was Vayishlach I can’t do it but I can do the
Noam: What’s up? Can you do it? Let me hear something.
Jonah: Did you guys hear this?
Noam: That was good. Thanks. That was good, that was so good.
Jonah: It’s in there. You know, I’m a musician. So when I hear like a melody that gets jammed in, it’s in there. But that’s the the partial is the story of Jacob wrestling with the angel and struggling with God. And like, that’s been so much of my relationship to God and to being Jewish.
Noam: Let me tell you one more thing about this. This is why we’re so connected. We named our daughter Sarit because the verse says that they named him, wrestled with God and he overcame it and he was named for the concept of wrestling with. That’s why he went from Jacob, Yaakov to Yisrael. The word Yisrael comes from Ki sarita, because you struggled. So we named our daughter Sarit, that’s how intense we are as people.
Jonah: Yeah, that’s pretty intense…
Noam: You have to go through it, you have to go through the process. And my two-year-old Sarit gives us a lot to struggle with, but we love her, we love her.
Jonah: She’s going to be a leader.
Noam: We love her. So let’s talk about this Jewish identity thing. Why do you think people, you have been someone that’s asserted your Jewish identity. Why do you think a lot of people don’t assert your Jewish identity? Why do think some people do not assert their Jewish identity? There’s a lot of
Jonah: I think it depends on who you are and who we’re talking about. I mean, no, but I mean, so there’s one camp of people who don’t assert it because it’s not important to them and it’s not really how they identify. It’s sort of an accident of birth that they don’t think about, what you’ve seen.
Jonah: then I think there are some who don’t assert it because they’re afraid. There’s a lot of fear. I think it’s a very vague, the term I use is like sort of the shape of fear. They can’t really, there’s no acute fear. It’s not like I’m afraid because this one guy in my class keeps looking at me funny. It’s, I’m afraid something bad’s gonna happen. They don’t really know what it is. People will reject me. People will, I’ll lose an opportunity. Just kind of all these fears, which we have to help people push through.
And then I think there’s also there’s often a fear of like I’m not literate enough. I don’t know how to do it right. I’m going to embarrass myself. I don’t belong. You know which is so sad when people have that issue and I hate that there are Jewish spaces making people feel like they need to have those fears.
Noam: There’s a little bit of shaming. It’s like, you don’t know about… Not that anyone’s…
Noam: Are people being explicit about that? I mean, are people explicitly… Or is that an implicit thing that makes people feel bad about their lack of Jewish literacy?
Jonah: I think there’s an explicit, you people have bad experiences where somebody says to them or they come into some Jewish space and they’re not treated sensitively and they’re like, wow, I did not belong in there. I’m not going to go back in there.
And I, you know, I did one of my first monologues on my show is about this, term “bad Jew.” There’s so many people who go like, I’m a bad Jew because I don’t, I don’t care. I’m a bad Jew because I don’t do this.
Noam: Keep kosher.
Jonah: And like, I hate that idea. It’s, know, a bad Jew is like a Jew who kills a bunch of people. That’s a bad Jew. Not because like I didn’t learn this prayer because I didn’t go to Jewish day school and I haven’t learned it yet. Like, it doesn’t make you bad. It means you haven’t learned this prayer yet. But I think that stops a lot of people from feeling like they’re allowed to take full ownership of their identity which is a shame.
Noam: Yeah, that’s great. Have you seen changes since the 7th of October for you? I’m interested in a little bit. You don’t have like overshare, but if you want to overshare, right, then your religious practice, how do you think Jewishly? Like you care a lot about Jewish identity. I see that you’re wearing a Star of David. Did you always wear the Star of David?
Jonah: No. Oh, this is a post October 7th. This is a post October 7th thing.
Noam: Did you ever consider wearing a kippah on your head or no?
Jonah: No. I’m not considering a kippah.
Noam: Tell me why that one and why the Jewish star. What does this represent to you?
Jonah: This is more religious, also less comfortable, truthfully. Just like this I don’t feel or think about and also like I’m a fidget or I can fidget with it. This is like clipping into my hair and like it’s gonna fall off or it’s like tight or whatever. But no, think to what I think your point is like this definitely feels more religious. This feels more like personhood.
Noam: This is like peoplehood to me
Jonah: This is more the peoplehood, I am Jewish, and this is more like I am Jew in a religious sense of being, like I’m thinking about God. I that’s the purpose of the Kippah is not as an identifier or a connector, it’s a respect for the divine. Which to me is generally, for my Judaism, like the least important aspect.
Noam: What’s the most important aspect to you?
Jonah: The most important aspect to me is the values and like the reason why and the making meaning in life in this scary, you know, life that can go a hundred million ways and could be completely meaningless. And Judaism gives you a roadmap for how to make meaning out of everything at all times in an amazing, beautiful way.
Noam: Love that. So let’s go down this path a little bit. What’s an example where you feel Judaism providing meaning in one’s life without having to necessarily be this vertical approach to God, but this horizontal approach to within the Jewish people? What might be an example?
Jonah: The easiest example is Shabbat. To me, that’s the cleanest entry point for all things.
Noam: Love Shabbat. Big Shabbat guy. You’re a shabbat guy?
Jonah: Who isn’t? Everybody loves Shabbat.
Noam: Shabbat’s awesome.
Jonah: Shabbat is awesome. And every non-Jew I’ve ever had with Shabbat is like, my God, what have I been missing out on? I’m going to have a Shabbat. Because it’s spiritual, and of course there are religious pieces of it, but it’s so much about gratitude and being present and you know taking stock of what’s important and the separation between the rest of the week and this holy time. A guy who I’m sure you know David Suissa.
Noam: Everybody knows David Suissa.
Jonah: One the greats of all time. of the greats legend. I always I quote him like every Shabbat he he said at a Shabbat dinner at his house that Shabbat is when we make time holy and I just love that and to me like that’s what Shabbat is all about. And it’s something everybody, think, can relate to, especially in modern times, where it’s everybody’s go, go, go, and your life’s flashing by and you’re spending half your time in a screen not knowing what’s going around you, and Shabbat is put it all away, let’s think about something different, let’s talk about something different, and let’s act in a way that’s different, inspirational.
Noam: I’ll tell you this, two books to read if you haven’t yet. One is Abraham Joshua Heschel’s book on the Sabbath, which is, it changed my life when I first read that because it got me to appreciate the Sabbath. It got me to appreciate Shabbat because I come from a commandedness sort of space like you’re talking about, but even from a commanded place like, hey, this Shabbat exists, God commanded the Jewish people to observe the Shabbat, and for me that’s a major part of my observance, but it doesn’t then give meaning if I just do it out of command in this. So when I read Heschel’s book, The Sabbath, I was blown away by how much meaning there was in Shabbat.
And the other book to read is Rabbi Joseph Baer Soloveitchik. He wrote Lonely Man of Faith. And he talks about two different types of Adams. Adam number one, which is the creative personality, the one who does, does, goes, goes, goes, produces, produces, produces, and Adam two, the one who retreats a little bit, the one who appreciates a little bit. And when I think of Shabbat, I think of that. I think of Adam two, and we’re so good at being Adam one. You’re literally a producer, you’re literally an actor, you’re literally a doer. And sometimes just to take a step back and just breathe, it’s amazing.
Jonah: 100%. Who couldn’t use more?
Noam: Yeah, all of us. Love Shabbat.
Okay, I wanna go into arts and your Judaism. What do we get right and what do we get wrong? You have a real connection to Hollywood. What do you see when Hollywood, see Jewish stories out of Hollywood, what have you seen people getting right and people getting right?
Jonah: Great question. So my view on like what I want to be seeing out of Hollywood in terms of Jews is humanizing contemporary narratives where the Jews like being Jewish, where it’s important to them, and where it’s an entertaining, engaging piece of entertainment, where the characters and subject matter happen to be about Jews and Jewish stuff. So an example of where we’re getting it right would be something like, and I use this example all the time, is You’re So Not Invited To My Bat Mitzvah. There’s Adam Sandler and his family. Not everybody’s favorite movie in the world, but in terms of a piece of Jewish content, it was contemporary. It’s about a girl who isn’t like, my bat mitzvah’s so lame, I hate it. She’s like, I gotta study hard for this. This is important.
Noam: Yes.
Jonah: I have great respect for this a father who says like that we are Jews This is what we do and by the end her lesson is like I don’t need a party That’s not what it’s about. It’s like my values my friendship is so much more important and beautiful beautiful like amazing and Introducing if you’re watching that you’re not a Jew you’re saying. like my family has fights like that I know teenagers. It’s humanizing exactly well
Noam: Without putting Judaism down
Jonah: Without the self-deprecating, typically, which it’s like, you know, that’s the majority of the Jewish content up until recent years has been people distancing and making fun of and how lame. I think that’s because a lot of the Jews in Hollywood are those kinds of Jews. And so that’s what you’re seeing on screen. So to move it into what we’re getting wrong, it’s that kind of stuff. So. We have strange obsession with self-deprecation.
Noam: I mean, that’s a good example. Do want to say a show?
Jonah: I forget the name of the movie. I think it’s yes something. Yes people. It was this Jonah Hill movie where it was like he was going to marry a black chick and he went to like her parents and she went to his parents and like he needed to sort of fit in and learn about black culture and her version of like her needing to learn about Jewish culture was Julie Dreyfus like took her to a rich white lady spa. You know like that was the Jewish part like and
Noam: Yeah.
Jonah: When he’s at synagogue in the opening scene, it’s just him making fun of all the people in the show. mean, this is so lame, I get outta here. And that’s the message we’re telling. The world is like, Jews don’t like being Jewish, they don’t like being where they are, and we’re just rich white people who think being Jewish is lame. And we’re gatekeeping this guy’s relationship for no reason.
Jonah: What’s it called? You people. You people, not you.
Noam: You people you people okay, so okay. What about this show? always get I’m actually watching it right now.
Jonah: Nobody wants this.
Noam: Yeah, nobody wants this so what’s your take on it? Tell me your take on tell me your take I want to tell you I’ll tell you my take right after not from my perspective, but from what my Colleagues in the non-jewish world how they describe it.
Jonah: That’s interesting, I’d like to hear that. So, I’m only two episodes into season two, so I can’t weigh in on that one yet. I will say from like a narrative entertainment standpoint, I’m not enjoying the beginning of season two as much as I did season one. But that’s what happens when you don’t really build a show to go multiple seasons and you have to come up with one.
Noam: This is the problem all the time. struggle watching more than I tell my wife all the time. I only want to watch miniseries because I because because if you’re making shows season after season, you’re just kind of making it up as you go along. Yeah, and I just like tell me the beginning, middle and end of a story. I’m there. Right. All right. But we’ll get to my issues.
Jonah: Right. It’s hit and miss. Sometimes it works out, you like you look at a Breaking Bad and you’re like, that guy, no, great. They made it work season after season. So season one, I actually went on my podcast, Jackie Tohn from the show on my show to explicitly talk about how much I loved season one of Nobody Wants This and to defend it to all the haters. I think it’s amazing and that’s another example of, look, I don’t think it’s perfect. Nothing is perfect. I don’t think You’re Still Not Invited To My Bat Mitzvah was perfect, but I love that there’s a show that’s very popular on Netflix, where the main character is like a cool young rabbi, where they’re having havdalah, where he’s going to Jewish sleepaway camp, where there’s a female rabbi. Tell me another show that has any of those things in it that there isn’t one. So they don’t get absolutely everything perfect, but you get to see a non-Jewish person seeing how beautiful all these Jewish traditions are, and you get to expose and humanize to an audience all these amazing facets of being Jewish.
And to me, they hooked me in the very first episode when she gets into the car with him and she says something about, I forget the exact line, but like, you guys don’t look Jewish. And he’s like, we don’t look Jewish? And he makes a whole thing of it in a way I’m like, we have the. This is really trying to be this conversations like that’s contemporary Jewish show. And I love that.
And I know that the biggest knock people have is, on the way, especially the mother is portrayed, is like the number one. But here’s what I’ll say about that.
Noam: It’s true. No, it’s not but let me hear what your issues a couple of things.
Jonah: Couple defenses. One is you have to have an obstacle in a show. Think of any show where two people from different cultures are trying to get married and one of their parents isn’t the one standing in the way going, you can’t marry someone from that culture. That is tale as old as time. That is a universal story. If there was no parent standing in the way, it would be like, okay, let’s get together. Great. The show’s over. It’s a no show.
Noam: That’s a universal story. 20 minutes.
Jonah: They have to there has to be somebody standing in the way and It just doesn’t bother me. I’d like I see that I see the the narrative device much more Maybe this is because I come from a writing Hollywood background. Like I’m always seeing the code through the matrix I don’t see it as like we need to stick a Jokey Jew in there. It’s we needed somebody’s got to be the obstacle. Somebody’s got to be the villain It makes sense. It would be the family of the Jew gatekeeping from the non-Jew. just, it totally makes sense to me. And it’s not like they portray her sibling or her parents as like, these are amazing people. Like her sister is like insane and weird and like mean and flawed. And her, her mom’s a whack job. And like.
Noam: That’s fair. Today I was on a flight and it was just funny. You walk down the aisle and you see people watching the show with like a rabbi with a kippah on his head and you’re like this is normalizing in the United States of America, just normalizing Judaism. That’s what I’m–
Jonah: Right. To me, that’s the win. Like, take the win.
Noam: So the critique that I’ve heard from talking about, from my non-Jewish friends and colleagues is that it’s kind of funny actually. And it makes, maybe it makes sense why you like it so much or defend it. They said, because you’re a male, you’re here in a second. They said that the Jewish men after watching this, they’re like, Jewish men seem awesome and Jewish women, not so awesome. That’s what they describe. Jewish women seem like boring, whiny, spoiled. And the Jewish guys are like, these guys are cool. These guys are interesting.
Jonah: I totally get, I totally hear that. Unfortunately, again, it’s a function of the story, so much less so than we gotta make, you know, we’re gonna make lame Jews. I also think, you I personally, I’m always tickled by Jackie Tone and find her very charming. Maybe that’s just me. But no, I totally hear that concern and somebody’s gotta be the obstacle.
Noam: I hear it. Okay, on being Jewish with Jonah Platt. I want to hear some Jewish things from you. What is your favorite Jewish song?
Jonah: Jewish song.
Noam: Whatever you decide. By the way, that’s a whole other video. What is Jewish culture? We made a video on Unpacked about that before. like, don’t start singing Drake, for example.
Jonah: What counts as a Jewish song? (sings)
Noam: That’s a good one. That’s a good one. That’s one that like. I’m sorry. we’re jumping up.
That’s that hypes my kids out big time. My daughter, it’s like my daughter’s favorite because we we hold hands. We’re jumping in a circle, and she’s just giggling.
Noam: That’s a one. Favorite Jewish movie. Are there any?
Jonah: Favorite Jewish movie? I’m gonna go with Menorah in the Middle, which is a holiday film I had a starring role in that is on Hulu. We’re at the right time of year for it and there’s some people now who like watch it every Hanukkah, which I was like, no.
Noam: That’s great. Okay, Menorah in the middle. Who is your favorite character in Tanakh in the Hebrew Bible? Why?
Jonah: My favorite character, it’s probably gotta be Moses.
Noam: You’re a Moses guy.
Jonah: I think so. I mean, he’s the greatest leader of all time. And as somebody who is a leader, and I’m always looking for inspiration and role models, and he’s a dude who had every flaw and challenge in the book and still herded the cats and made it all the way across the desert.
Noam: Yeah, one of the great things about Tanakh is that in our stories and throughout the entire Hebrew Bible our here our heroes like you said are not are not flawless. That’s not who–
Jonah: We talk about this on my show.
Noam: We did. Yeah, we did. I’m very into this topic because they’re not saints in Judaism. Right. They’re not saints. So Moshe, Moses.
Okay. Let me ask you one more question about Hollywood. In the Hollywood world, want you to rank this one to 10. And you can’t say seven.
Jonah: I was in my head, was thinking of saying.
Noam: No matter what people say seven because people hedge or they say six seven, right? In the Hollywood world rank one to ten ten you can’t say seven or six seven How do you think the Jewish world has done with their identity since the 7th of October in for out of Hollywood? How would you rank the Jewish Hollywood actors, the people working in how they’ve done about their Jewish identity, about speaking out.
Jonah: On the whole? On the whole? don’t know, four?
Noam: Just unimpressed.
Jonah: Unimpressed. I mean, for the few people who are doing it, extremely impressed and proud and, you know, proud to call most of them friends. But it’s weak. I mean, it’s the same cast of characters. I can count them on two hands. there’s just so many more people who could be involved, who are hesitating for those fear-based reasons. And I’m not even thinking about the ones who are totally disengaged. We can’t rely on them. They’ve never been engaged. It’s not fair to think they would be now. But the ones who do care and still aren’t doing it, that’s where I take issue, because they believe in the cause. They believe in supporting the Jewish people. They believe in it, they’re just happy or making a business decision.
Happy to let somebody else do it. Or making a, majority is not deeply thought business decisions.
Noam: Well, I want to get directly into that now. Let’s talk about Israel. Yeah. You ready?
Jonah: Always.
Noam: Yeah. Okay. When I say, as a Jew, how do you react?
Jonah: Well, two ways. Now I think of my friend Sarah Hurwitz’s which she didn’t even mean in that way it’s now used.
Noam: Okay, good. Well, the whole idea is I think she wanted to capture it from the other way it was being used.
Jonah: No, she, not initially. Initially it was like just in terms of like as a Jew here is how I like look at these things and think about these things. then, because she started writing it before that like became a thing that it is now where it’s like you’re this as a Jew I’m gonna excuse some BS thing.
Noam: So your reaction is…is general unless you’re Sarah Hurwitz when you’re saying as a Jew you’re about to say some tokenizing like negative thing that that others are going to use as an argument against Jews.
What does Zionism mean to you, Jonah?
Jonah: What Zionism means to me is the belief that Jews should have sovereignty, self-determination in some part of the ancestral homeland to which they are indigenous. It’s a word I spoke about on my show. I wish we didn’t use as much. Not just because it’s been horribly co-opted and everybody uses it to mean different things now, but because it’s aspirational in nature for something we already have. I don’t like it.
Noam: Meaning Zionism was accomplished in 1948.
Jonah: Yes. So why are we still talking about it in terms of like Israel should be this? It’s like Israel is this. Great job guys. We did it. Let’s call it something else now. Right. It’d be like calling ourselves in America colonial patriots and not just Americans. Like we did it.
Noam: We won the war, now we’re just Americans.
Jonah: Just because I don’t feel like it serves us that well. But I know, certainly from talking to Israelis especially, it’s like a real source of pride. Especially because within their families, like so many were the literal Zionists of that. Who built it. Who built it and then who fought for it in wars in the 60s and 70s. And so like, it’s not going anywhere. But I just, don’t know that it’s always so helpful.
Noam: I hear the issue in America. I want to hear a little bit more about what it means to you. Like you gave me a definition of Zionism, but what does it mean for you to be a Zionist living here in beautiful LA? Like what does it mean? Do you identify as a Zionist?
Jonah: Sure, I identify as one because that’s the shorthand word that we use, but like what I identify with is being a lover and supporter of Israel. You know, and you know, that’s my place, those are my people, I love and support it. I’m part of the Jewish family, so of course I’m a Zionist.
Noam: Right. As being part of the Jewish family means to be part of the Jewish story, which includes around 50 % of world Jewry who lives in Israel.
Jonah: Yes.
Noam: Okay. I hear that. So then how do you have conversations with family members or friends who might view Israel differently than you? What does that conversation look like? Do you have friends or family that don’t identify with your approach to Zionism, which is, to me, sounds like, I’m putting words in your mouth right now, but hey, the Jewish state is part of the Jewish story, is part of the Jewish people. I’m here to support it. They’re gonna have policies I dislike. They’re gonna have the government members are gonna say things that I abhor. But so what? So like that would be true of any place, any country. But how do you have conversations with family members or friends that maybe are okay with the Jewish people not having a Jewish state? I presume you have. So then how do you do these conversations?
Jonah: Yeah, I’ve had these conversations. So I think about this a lot and I’ve there’s really like a methodology to it excuse me so I have what I call the four C’s they’re actually five C’s now. Curiosity, camaraderie, calm, compassion, cabernet sauvignon.
Noam: Mm-hmm okay.
Jonah: Start with the cab yeah I like to have these conversations over a drink because
Noam: Start with the cab.
Jonah: From the get-go, it sets up, this is two people talking. We’re here in friendship. We’re not standing at debate podiums. We’re not trying to solve the Middle East crisis. You’re my family member. You’re my friend. We’re having a drink, and we’re discussing something the way we would discuss politics, the way we would discuss whatever.
Noam: Lower the temperature.
Jonah: So that’s number one.
Comradery is sort of like that, in the sense that, like, if you say something that I find silly, I can laugh at it, like the stakes are not so high that the conversation’s like this. Like we’re here to chat. And if you say, like, we can be easy going in our conversation even when we’re talking about things that are important to us.
The compassion is, you have to actually sort of listen to what the other person is saying and attempt to understand and identify with. And understand that if this person is your friend or family member, they were not, you know, born in the lavas of Mordor. Like they’re a human being who came to this conclusion, whether rightly or wrongly, but like it came from somewhere.
Curiosity. You have to actually want to hear what this person has to say and understand it. I think that the number one mistake most people make having these conversations is we’re sitting down so I can change your mind. Doesn’t work, isn’t going to happen. You’ll get nowhere. It’s going to blow up. You’re going to get frustrated. Recipe for disaster. You have to go in being like, just want to hear what you have to say so I can understand it. Knowing you’re probably not going to get anywhere. They’re probably not going to change their mind. But at least it might give you some ability to like have relief and move on with your life. Because at least you understand either, OK, I get you know, I certainly don’t agree, but I get where it came from because you’ve been influenced by this person or you read these books or you’re feeling this, whatever, or you’re like, okay, this person’s dumb, and that’s just the way it is. They’re just not deep thinkers, and I can let that go. You’re not a deep thinker, and you don’t actually care about this that much, and you’re just parroting stuff you’ve heard, whatever it is. It’s much easier if you wanna actually understand.
And then the last one is calm. This is probably the second biggest mistake people make, is you come in, you’re already hot. I’m here to fight, I’m here to defend. I’m here to debate you. It’s gotta be chill. If you come in already hot, it’s not gonna go well. And you have to think about, well, what is my intention here? What am I trying to get out of this? I think is a really big thing. And I think a lot of people, if you’re getting into it being like, need to be heard, it’s not gonna go well. It’s gotta be, I need to hear you, then I can also be heard. And we’re gonna… keep it calm. And what I have found with this formula is I’m able to have conversation and then I’m able to maintain the relationships. And almost always the conversation changes nothing about their point of view. It helps me understand, like I can sort of kind of write you off in terms of trying to have these discussions. Like most of the time they’re not really, in my experience, interested in getting into it deeply and continuing this on because these aren’t really actually very important deeply held beliefs for a lot of these people. These are people who like this is the narrative that they’ve jumped on. This is what they hear and it’s something they think about 5% of their day and very easy to say, yeah, no, that’s what I think. This is what all my people think. That’s it. And then you’ll be like, okay, great. Well, this is really important to me.
And so now that we’ve had this great talk, like, let’s go back and forth. Let’s keep it going. Let’s see how we go. And they just like, don’t really care to. They’ve like made up their mind and they got other things that are more important and they don’t actually want to keep engaging on it. But at least you like did what you could do and you can feel good. Like I had the talk when we were together in a non Israel related setting. We can hang out. We can do a thing and I’ll just know that like this is this road is sort of blocked to us. And maybe that, you know, moves us down a tier of closeness in my heart or whatever, but it’s not gonna blow up our relationship and it’s not gonna end the world and it’s not gonna end the crisis and we’re gonna be all right.
Noam: I have so much to say about that. that you just said for a much longer conversation another time. The one thing I will jump on is what you said about persuasiveness. One of the challenges, and I fall into this trap all the time, is that we tend to think that if I’m right about everything, whatever the thing is, then people will be like, my God, you were right about everything. You know what? I will change my mind. Thank you so much for enlightening me with your wisdom. That is not the way people are typically persuaded. What you said about about modeling, you didn’t use this word, but I think in some ways it’s partially what you mean is humility. If you are able to engage, if I’m able to engage in a conversation with somebody and model curiosity, model being interested, model that I don’t have all the answers, then I call this Newton’s third law. Newton’s third law is every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So if I engage in a certain way with somebody and I’m able to lower the temperature, drink Cabernet when we Thursday, know, make sure that, know, shout out to my buddy, Rafi. the like, and just chill out.
then what can happen is the reverse will happen as well. You’re able to induce chilling out from the other person as well, as opposed to if you try to persuade and push and push, then there’s an equal and opposite reaction. They’re gonna resist, resist, resist, dig their heels in. That’s what I see in relationships in general, not just about Israel stuff, but relationships in general.
Jonah: If you like sub it out for let’s say it’s politics, it’s like your friend is a Democrat and you’re a Republican, you’re probably not going to get them to change political parties and ideologies in this conversation. What’s important is that you feel like sort of heard and seen by each other and that you can just like keep being friends and like agree to disagree.
Noam: Alright, that’s Zionism, that’s Israel, lots more to talk about this, but I want to talk about the Jewish future a little bit.
I want to know what’s an example of there you said you spoke earlier about Jewish peoplehood and feeling a real connection to the Jewish people and that from a religious perspective that there’s less of a there’s more of a coercion perhaps vertically that you’re like I’m not so interested in that what what is a Jewish law that you struggle with?
Jonah: A Jewish law that I struggle with?
Noam: A Jewish teaching, a Jewish law, something that you’re like, wanna, like, I don’t know, am sarita, I’m struggling with this one.
Jonah: Yeah, I would say there’s a couple. The way that we halachically are taught to engage with non-Jews is something I struggle with. I had a Haredi guy on my podcast and we sort of got into some of the laws around like very literally saying like you’re not really supposed to fraternize with them beyond a certain level because you might become enticed and it might open the gates and you might, you know move out of the community or intermarry or whatever it is and i you know i have some issues i’m uncomfortable, uncomfortable with that.
Noam: But what would you say to someone who says, Joan, I totally get why you’re uncomfortable with that, but 72 % of non-orthodox Jews in the United States of America don’t marry Jewish.
Jonah: This what we talked about and I was like well like I was like dude like I’m a perfect example I went out and I brought a Jew in you know cuz I’m you know and he was like you’re the exception You’re not the rule like the numbers show like they’re not most people aren’t like you which is fair enough And so I get it, but I I can’t help but feel like there’s gotta be Another way to safeguard what needs to be safeguarded while also not, you know, othering each other so much.
Noam: And do you think, do you feel as though that alienation of Jewish people from non-Jewish people creates a friction that is a feature in some ways of the relationship, not a bug, which needs to therefore be improved?
Jonah: Yes, exactly. think if you’re if you’re by nature being like we’re going to stay separate from you, you’re not going to you’re going to have issues. I mean, it’s just you’re you’re you’re drawing a line. Even if it’s a soft line, people feel it. And if you’re trying to integrate into the fabric of a world and be like, hey, we’re Jews, we’re here, we’re not going anywhere. We want to be integrated. And that doesn’t necessarily mean entirely assimilated, but integrated. That’s why I’m using that word like, we have to be careful about drawing that line.
Noam: Yeah, give me the aspect of Judaism, that’s what you struggle with the most. Earlier you said Shabbat is something that excites you. that your favorite thing in Judaism, what do you say? there something within peoplehood that really gets your juices going? There is something in that, like when you think about Judaism, when you think about your family, is there a holiday, a moment, something about Judaism that you’re like, I am so darn proud to be part of the Jewish community.
Jonah: Mm-hmm. Well, it’s not a holiday or a moment, but I could name holidays and moments. I mean, the way that we handle life cycle events, I think, is awesome. It all comes down to, as we were talking about earlier, that intentionality and that, like, giving meaning to everything. I mean, you look at a wedding ceremony, you look at the way we deal with death. Like, each little piece has been so thought out to really means something and to be there for a reason and to add such depth to all of these big life moments. And then the other thing that popped into my mind was just the way that we’re like one kind of big Jewish family. Like Jews are always looking out for other Jews and thinking about other Jews and relating to other Jews they’ve never met. And that’s very unique. And the way that Jews show up for each other is very unique. And that certainly makes me proud and feel grateful to be a part of it.
Noam: I love it. I want to do something kind of ridiculous. I want to read to you some of your Apple comments on Being Jewish.
Jonah: Let’s do it. Okay.
Noam: You ready for this? Yeah. I’ll read to you a couple. I want to get your reaction to them. Ready? Number one, from iDoc852. What’s up? He says, or she says, I don’t know. I love this podcast. Five stars, exclamation point. Jonah Platt feels like a friend and I love how we interview these guests. By the end of each episode, I feel like I have a new friend and I’m so grateful for this podcast, especially during such a critical time. Thank you to the entire Unbeing Jewish team. What do you react to that? What’s your reaction?
Jonah: I love that, but there’s no on, it’s just called being Jewish.
Noam: well, iDoc 852.
Jonah: He wrote on being Jewish,
Noam: Unbelievable. So now you’re upset idoc. idoc.
Jonah: Doc’s gotta get his eyes checked.
Noam: Nice nice. All right. Let me read another one to you those monologues…sir Yes, sir I don’t know how much time you spend writing your monologues, but they’re fantastic even friends who don’t like my podcasts I send them your episodes and I’m like dude I know you don’t like podcasts, but at least listen to the first five minutes gets them every time he didn’t say with that intonation That’s how I read it. love it. It’s been delightful to follow you on your journey with this show. Thank you for all you do.
Jonah: I love that. I mean I put a lot of work into those they take many hours a week and like what day is it today? It’s a Tuesday I’m already stressing because like I got a right one and record it basically by Sunday and right now I have nothing.
Noam: You’ll have something.
Jonah: Well, but it’s just like man. It’s every it’s like I got a write a sermon every single week. It’s just It’s we’re getting there
Noam: Rabbi Jonah Platt. How about this one? This is from March 27th. JimOhio1 writes, whining nepo baby. yeah. One star. I guess the answer to being Jewish per this podcast is lack of self-awareness coupled with lack of talent. But if you have a connected creepy Hollywood dad, you can have a podcast.
Jonah: I know it’s this. Okay, so this is very clear. don’t want I don’t even I can’t get into this but this is No, but this is that they’re based on the timing and the the words he used this is somebody who Came to hate on me as a result of something that happened in the world outside of this podcast For which I got a lot of crap and this guy’s definitely dumping on me for that.
Noam: This person has an idea.
Jonah: Yeah
Noam: I’m always, when I do, when I, you know, want to cry and look at my podcast reviews and, you know, my wife and the people write like sometimes the meanest things. Are you spending time? It’s so interesting. you, my personality would be if I didn’t like something, I’d be like, I just stopped listening. But people are like, to make sure you know how much I didn’t like it. It’s so, it’s so, it’s something, here’s one. Sit down. On the Sarah Hurwitz episode I did recently, I made a joke that I was like, think people would like understand Jews more, maybe instead of Israel, it was called Jewland. Making a joke, and especially like, you know, that’s sort of like the dummies version of what a country could be called. I can’t tell you how many comments I got from people, they’re like, it’s called Judea.
Noam: The ego though, Jonah, you know what? It’s good. It’ll knock you down.
Jonah: And I’m like, yeah, I know it’s called Judea. It’s like the spelling, it’s the thing. Like I was making a joke. And so many people think I must be a freaking moron and don’t know that Judea is a thing. And I’m like, guys.
Noam: Just take it down. Take it down. Three notches. Have some Cabernet.
Jonah: Have some Cabernet.
Noam: It’s It’s a joke. It’s a Yeah. okay, just give me your, your last Jonah Platt reflections about, life right now. Gosh. What do you think? What are you, what are you thinking right now? What, what’s, what does the future look like for us, Jonah?
Jonah: I think the future is bright.
Noam: You feel good about it?
Jonah: I do feel good about it. Yeah, I feel like there’s enough people engaged. I think we have our obstacles to overcome internally that are, you know, we’re getting in the way of ourselves. Let me put it that way. I think if, if as a Jewish community, we smoothed out our issues, those being, you know, not being inclusive enough, infighting, 700 organizations trying to do the same thing. I mean, we were just talking about how like every night there’s 50 different events that are all competing with each other. Like if we could smooth that stuff out and get more united and focused. And it makes me think of my acapella group in college. It was called Off the Beat. And we would get into this formation, like a small arc, and we would talk energetically about trying to be like the Death Star. If you can picture from Star Wars, the Death Star has that big circular spaceship and then that big laser beam shoots like right out of the center of it. And so like as Jews, we need to be more like the Death Star where we’re all focused inward together and then that one solid beam is shooting. That’s certainly what the other sides do.
Noam: I it. Love it. I hear it. From that analogy, it feels like we had different interests in high school and college, but I like it.
Jonah: Yeah, you were a sports guy.
Noam: I like it. I like it.
Jonah: I was the arts guy. You’re an arts guy. I love it. And look at us both doing similar things now. Yeah. It’s pretty incredible.
Every you do in high school and college means
Noam: That’s a good lesson. My final reflection is Jonah, we need more people like you. We need many more people like you. People who deeply care about the Jewish story, deeply care about the Jewish future, are struggling, are thinking, meaning you’re thinking Jew. You’re someone who is asking the right questions, exploring the right issues, not settling for your understanding of Judaism from 15, 20 years ago, but wanting to grow your understanding of Judaism. And frankly, being out there proud with your Jewish identity, probably in a place that not everyone around you is so proud with their Jewish identity, but you’re saying, hey, this is part of who I am. I want to be out there. I want to teach. And while you might not be Rabbi Jonah Platt, you are an educator, and you’re using your platform, your microphone to teach the world about Judaism. So thank you so much for everything that you do and it’s an honor to have you on Wondering Jews.
Jonah: It’s been an honor to be here and a pleasure as always.