Mijal
Coming up on Wondering Jews…
Noam
What would you say the Jewish world should spend billions of dollars?
Ethan
I think it’s investing in the future leaders. How can we continue to push and allow these, this next generation of Jewish leaders to grow?
Noam
Welcome to Wondering Jews with Mijal and Noam. I’m Noam, and today I am here with Ethan Goetz.
Ethan
What’s up? Happy to be here. Thank you so much for for having me.
Noam
So you grew up in Pittsburgh? Correct?
Ethan
Yes.
Noam
You’re up in Pittsburgh, and now you go to the University of Miami.
Ethan
I do.
Noam
I want to talk to you about who you are, what your identity is, what the Jewish experience is all about. But before I do that case, you just some random questions that are on my mind.
Ethan
Sure. Go ahead.
Noam
So you go to the University of Miami.
Ethan
I do.
Noam
I want to see how well, you know the U. do you call it the U?
Ethan
The U, of course.
Noam
Name me the three best football players in the University of Miami history.
Ethan
History?
Noam
Yes.
Ethan
I’m gonna go Ed Reed.
Noam
Good.
Ethan
I’m gonna go. Sean Taylor.
Noam
Okay.
Ethan
What? No.
Noam
Okay. I’m listening.
Ethan
I’m thinking. Well, I’m thinking. Well, as a as of recent. I love Kam Ward. Okay. Kam Ward is up there. Watching him play in person was insane. We could go a lot. Quarterbacks, Vinny Testaverde, you could throw up in there.
Noam
You know what they used to call him? I grew up in Baltimore. They. They used to call it the Verde.
Ethan
No, I don’t like that. No fan of that one.
Noam
How do you not like that as a Steelers, you’re you’re.
Ethan
I’m a Steelers fan, but I just like from the Miami side of things. Yeah. Ed Reed, we could go. I mean, currently, I’m loving Mally Tony. I’m loving Dairy Mensa. That combo is insane.
Noam
Right now when we’re recording this, they’re three. No.
Ethan
Right now we are five zero.
Noam
505.
Ethan
050 win over three in the country. Yes, we’re three and own conference play. So signs are pointing very high. I have very high expectations for this team. And I’m just looking for. We play Florida State this weekend. Who? So, it should be a really, really good time.
Noam
So you have a lot of pride in Miami? Yes. So I want to talk about that because you’re a Jewish student at University of Miami and you are majoring in what. Business?
Ethan
I’m in finance and business analytics. Yeah.
Noam
Question. That’s on a lot of people’s mind is what the Jewish experience is like as a student at university of anything in the, in the US or specifically University of Miami. But I want to so I want to get into that with you. But I want to talk a little bit more about you. Also, you are very involved in Hillel.
Noam
What is Hillel and what is it that, that you do at Hill.
Ethan
Hillel in general terms, Hill International is a global Jewish, student organization that helps put on activities, leadership development, growth. Anything Jewish related that is that you could think of Hillel does. And so internationally they are at over. I think 850 campuses representing just about 200,000 students, which is really, really special to be able to represent that many people and be able to be international as well.
Ethan
And it’s not just the US, but at the University of Miami Hillel specifically, I have held a plethora of roles. When I was a freshman, I started the Jewish Cooking Club. I started the Hillel run club, which is currently still running. And so we run Mondays at 5 p.m., shout out, and then as I kind of spent more time there, I eventually got into the holding a position on board.
Ethan
Being the chair of programing. So putting on weekly programs, which I really, really loved being in that role. Just talking to people. Seeing what? Well, how can I get them to Hillel and what events would they want to see and to be able to get something out of coming into the building?
Noam
Love it. Let’s pause that for a second. So you Jewish cooking. Let’s go to Jewish cooking. All right. What is your best dish?
Ethan
I love kugel. My mom has an amazing kugel recipe. Oh, yes, I, I don’t know, that’s just been my favorite noodle. Noodle.
Noam
Noodle? Noodle.
Ethan
Yes.
Noam
Wow. Okay. Yes. Yeah. That’s your favorite dish?
Ethan
It’s my my favorite that my mom makes. Its I every it it’s just so good.
Noam
Like it’s like what is what is noodle kugel.
Ethan
It’s just I don’t even know how to describe it. It’s like a noodle noodle casserole. Almost. But just like sweet. Yes. She throws a, like, craziness in there. And it’s just like, it’s so good. You gotta come over and try it.
Noam
I’ll do that.
Noam
So. Cooking. Running. Yeah. And you said something else.
Ethan
And then I joined e board to be the chair of programing. The executive board. The student student board.
Noam
So you. So. But and and how fast is your fastest mile?
Ethan
My fastest mile ever has been 545.
Noam
Five.
Ethan
45. Yeah. I don’t know if I could do that anymore. I ran cross country in high school, so that was kind of like my peak of running fast. Yeah. But.
Noam
I could do. I think I could do, like, 945.
Ethan
Okay. That’s still. That’s not bad.
Noam
45.
Ethan
Okay.
Noam
So just four minutes slower. That’s okay. By the way, you don’t have to say that.
Ethan
No. But like for the average person, I feel like that’s pretty good person. But for me, I feel like I’ve definitely slowed down a lot. Yeah, yeah.
Noam
You’re too young.
Ethan
Slow down. Endurance wise, for for running. I’m 21.
Noam
Keep going.
Ethan
I gotta keep pushing.
Noam
I haven’t. I find.
Ethan
I gotta find some time to get runs in.
Noam
Yeah, yeah. Get your runs in. And that’s that’s what you got to do. Okay. But I’m not understanding how to explain this to me a little bit more. Okay. Hillel, you got very involved in the Hill. What? It is Jewish community that serves a few hundred thousand people, Jewish people across the world.
Ethan
Correct.
Noam
At during college years, primarily. Yes. Do you? Running. Cooking? What is that to do with Judaism?
Ethan
So basically, I wanted to start an initiative I like, loved cooking. And they kind of the way it started was. And the dining hall, actually, they were doing cooking lessons, and I saw one of my friends there, and I was like, hey, what if we just randomly throw this idea of doing like a Jewish cooking club, putting like a Jewish spin to it?
Ethan
Maybe it’s doing a Jewish meals? Or is there a connection? Like one of the biggest ones we ever had was, sushi making? But is there really it. Of course. But is there really a tie to Jewish history with sushi making? What is the tie?
Noam
Is that the Jewish people are the only to have sushi at pizza restaurants. That’s the connection. Okay, that’s the only connection. Outside of that, there’s no connection between sushi and Judaism. It’s that Jews, for some reason, when they have a kosher pizza place, they also have sushi. Okay.
Ethan
That’s it. The connection we made was we talked about like the Jews in Japan, and that was like the connection. And so like, we kind of made it work, but everyone loved it. And so we’ve done other events. I’m forgetting some off the top of my head right now. It’s been it’s been a while since we did an event key.
Noam
I would not that’s the first example that you give of Jewish cooking. Is sushi. Like, what about like, what did you do things like, I don’t know. Israeli food? Or do you think like, like cholent or do things like, like have you heard? Have you ever had cholent? You never had cholent.
Ethan
Cholent.
Noam
How do you spell cholent?
Ethan
Chilean CHULLENT.
Noam
I’ll get you through a double l there.
Ethan
Is it just one?
Noam
That’s one l.
Ethan
Oh, okay.
Noam
So generous with your l.
Ethan
Sorry, sorry.
Noam
OLLECHOLENT. Okay, that you have to come to my house for. Okay. And basically, it’s like a stew cooked that you make on Friday Shabbat because the idea is you can’t cook on.
Ethan
Yeah.
Noam
Yeah, yeah. And so but the Jews in Eastern Europe used to do. And also there’s a different version in North Africa and the Middle East is they would make all they put all these things together. It’s typically beans, barley, potatoes, meat lots of meat. You can do vegetarian if you want to go that route okay. And then you have you have different sources that you put in.
Noam
So like my son, when he makes his 13, he makes it. He puts in some sweet, sweet chili, puts in some garlic, puts in some, sriracha with like, okay, I see a little, little heat. Okay. And then it cooks overnight. The whole house is filled with the smell of this. And then the next day you rocket. It’s hot.
Noam
It’s slow cooked, and it’s. That’s nice. You got it. You don’t cook on Shabbat. So that’s it? Yeah. So you got to check out. Okay? Okay. I think you’re gonna like that. All right. There’s there’s so many other foods. And what makes a food Jewish? It’s such an interesting conversation.
Ethan
Yeah. And so it’s like, is it typically do Jews typically eat it like, is there a Jewish connection? Is there a history behind it? That first was a Jewish meal. And now it’s kind of like a more generalized thing. How can we find a connection? The the club kind of died. I’m going to try to bring it back.
Ethan
Yeah. Okay. We could try to do that. I gotta find the necessary utensils for it.
Noam
All right, I got you. I’m serious. I got you because you.
Ethan
Should come. Should come to campus, and we’ll do it together.
Noam
Let’s do it up there. All right. Serious. We’ll have we’ll have a we’ll have a bus and weekend.
Ethan
Yeah. Don’t say that.
Noam
I’m not invited. Yeah. I’m not invited.
Ethan
Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Yeah, we’ll do that.
Noam
So the reason I’m bringing up this food and all this is one of the things that you are really into, because you told me this before is you’re into Jewish joy.
Ethan
Yes.
Noam
Why does Jewish joy matter for you?
Ethan
I think for me, like, I don’t identify as, like, religious Jew like services are not my favorite thing. But how can I find other ways to be Jewish? Going to Israel has been one of those ways. And being Jewish, Jewish joy has been part of that. How can I find joy out of being Jewish? Is it the food?
Ethan
Is it the friends? The community? Of course, I’m always going to Shabbat dinners, but it’s the community of people that make it the Jewish joy. How can I find new people to bring them into the building, into other activities, to be able to find their Jewish joy and to be able to enhance mine?
Noam
And what’s what is an example?
Ethan
I think for me, the biggest thing is going to Israel. I’ve been three times and every time has just been better than the last. And it like meeting.
Noam
Tell me about Israel that brings you so much Jewish.
Ethan
To it. I think it again, it’s the people. I think one of the biggest things is the people. I think the joy of the Israeli people bring me joy, being able to explore. I love traveling, so that’s one of my favorite things to being able to explore another country is just super, super interesting to me. And especially every time I go, I try to find new new towns, new cities, new places I can explore while also.
Noam
Give me a favorite of your.
Ethan
Favorite town experience in Israel. Trying to think like my favorite all time experience. Okay. When I was younger. I’ll tie it back. When I was younger, I did a lot of outdoor camping. And so when we did the tents in the middle of the desert, there was no cell service at all. And being able to just, like, look up at the stars with my friends and not be on our phones and just be one with each other was super special and super meaningful. And I think a lot of my friends would agree that that was a special night and a special experience.
Noam
So can I challenge you on this? Yeah, and of course, but be real with me.
Noam
Why is what you just meaning you could go to Croatia and do something like that. You could go to Italy and do something like that. You could go to Thailand and do something like that. Why? What you just described? What? What makes that so joyful for you? Why? Why Israel, like other places, have better waterfalls. Other places have, you know, more beautiful oceans?
Noam
Some might say, better food, maybe not. But these are different. Like, why? Why is this experience in Israel something that brings you joy as a kid from I think, yeah.
Ethan
I think just as a kid from Pittsburgh, I didn’t grow up in the super Jewish area. I went to high school with I, we talked about this before. I went to a massive high school with the graduating class of 750, and I was one of four Jews. So I kind of never had that true Jewish connection. And I kind of found that connection when I went to Israel.
Ethan
And being there, it just like brings out something different in me that, like, I don’t I don’t know what that is, but what.
Noam
Is it? It’s called the pintle. Yet. You heard of that?
Noam
Okay, I taught you. Okay means that as.
Ethan
We haven’t been good in years. So nine and eight and ten and seven every year.
Noam
That was like you said, you didn’t do so many Jewish things.
Noam
It wasn’t like a huge part of your identity. It was a huge part of your identity. But day in, day out, you weren’t surrounded by it. Yeah. Then you go to a place where it’s everything. It’s a culture. It’s the people, it’s the food, it’s environment. It’s the day to day experience. And then what I hear you describing, because you could do this in Croatia, Italy or anywhere else is there’s something deep over here in your heart that is what’s called the lead.
Noam
Like there’s this Jewish depth inside that’s in you. Okay. And it’s just waiting to come out. It just needs to be it needs to be extracted. And then when you go to Israel because that’s the Jewish environs, that’s there, that’s you’re like, wow, this is, this is who I am. Yeah. It’s my identity. Yeah. And so it’s, that’s probably why.
Noam
Because when you were describing this feeling that you had. I’m like, oh my gosh, this is this is the.
Ethan
Yeah. That’s it.
Noam
Are you a traveler in general?
Ethan
I am I love traveling.
Noam
What do.
Ethan
You love. So everywhere I love exploring new places. So, this last spring I studied abroad in Japan. So, of course, Doug, how could I not.
Noam
Use club? Cooking.
Ethan
I, I should.
Noam
Do you tell them what you do? I should.
Ethan
I did, I did tell them, and I should probably bring it back. But when I was, when I was born, my mom made a joke to my dad. What if we got him to all 50 states? And then my dad took her seriously and started. We started traveling when I was much younger, and then my mom had three more kids, so there’s four of us.
Ethan
And by the time I went to college, all six of my family, we had been to all 50 states.
Noam
Which is your favorite?
Ethan
Colorado.
Noam
That’s a great answer.
Ethan
It’s amazing.
Noam
So you’ve been to a lot of different places? Yeah, across the US.
Noam
Been to Israel. That’s what you said brings you Jewish joy. That’s a great example of it.
Noam
But you’re one of four kids. Jewish kids? Yeah. In growing up in Pittsburgh.
Ethan
I really didn’t. Not much. I think for starters, I was kind of known as, like, the Jew. So if, like, my friends or people had questions.
Noam
The Jew in a bad way.
Ethan
In a good way? Yeah, in a good way.
Noam
The Jew could be negative, but. Yeah, like there was something about you that brought out. Yeah.
Ethan
Jewish people, whenever there were holidays or stuff going on, people would ask me questions. And, like, even if I didn’t know the answer, I knew where to find the answer. And so I’d be like, let me get back to you because, like, I want to make sure I’m giving you the right information. So it kind of started as that, as, like me being a Jewish leader in that aspect of, like, I was the one that was carrying the weight at school in a good way.
Ethan
And people would ask me questions. And I think it brought out that light of even if there was anti-Semitism going on, people were able to come to me and know that, like, I was okay and they were able to ask me questions to know that, like what anti-Semitism is and how do I feel and what can what can they do to help stop it?
Noam
And what do you think is wonder about.
Ethan
I think, I think for starters, like for my bar mitzvah, that was like my friends like highlight, was like, they’ve never heard of it, never been to one. So, they, they would ask me about that, what a bar mitzvah is and what it kind of means in the Jewish world. And then when I’m, when I’m up there, like, reading the Torah, I’m reading Hebrew.
Noam
Of it.
Ethan
I can know, like I.
Ethan
Baku. I don’t know how.
Ethan
Baruch and I knew I knew how I mean, I knew I know how to. I mean, all right. Got it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I still do some alias at, like, High Holidays for Hillel, so I that’s where I, like, kind of stays top of mind. But like, my friends had no idea what this was. And, like, I’m reading Hebrew and, like, they’ve never heard Hebrew read written like, ever before.
Ethan
They’re like scrolling instead of, like, they’re paying attention to my bar mitzvah, but they’re like, scrolling through their prayer book playing. What is this like? This is like something new that’s been unlocked for them. So it was really cool to be able to open that door for them. And of course, like when I’m reading Hebrew, like I can read it, I have no idea what I’m saying.
Ethan
So people ask me like, oh, what does this mean? What does that mean? I’m like, I have no idea.
Noam
You should go to Claude.
Ethan
Yeah, go to Claude. Go to go to Google Translate. Like you can figure that out yourself. And I can add the Hebrew calendar or Hebrew keyboard to as a shortcut for you. So that you can be able to type it in.
Noam
Cool. So they’re so they’re they operated out of a place of curiosity. Yeah. So then you get to college? Yeah. Were you planning on being in so involved usually when you got to college?
Ethan
I was not. When I was searching for colleges. Judaism was a part of the the equation, but it wasn’t in front of mind for my parents. It was much higher on the list. But for me, I really wanted, like, a really good business school. A good school overall.
Ethan
But when I got on campus, like, we have an event called Fresh Fest, which is when freshmen come to me, other freshmen at Hillel. So you can kind of meet new, like Jewish people who are in the same boat as you.
Ethan
They’re all knowing campus. They don’t know what they’re doing. But it’s good to get some friends before you start going elsewhere. And so I got involved that way. But after that, like, kind of took a step back and tried to figure out what else I wanted to do on campus. And then October 7th happened, which is when I was a freshman, and that is when Hillel was there for me and all of my friends.
Ethan
And so that is what kind of was the catalyst to me being so involved with hello. They were there for me and supported me. And so in my mind, I kind of wanted to support them and be there for them if they ever needed anything. And so I try to show up every day, ask if they need help.
Ethan
Hang out, chat with the staff. I have meetings occasionally, but I just love the aspect. It’s such a friendly environment and supportive environment that we have there.
Noam
You’ve been on campus for a few years now. And you came from a high school where you were four Jewish kids in your class at 750 students. What advice would you give to young Jewish kids who are going to college campus, who are unsure about getting involved, about getting involved?
Ethan
I think, for starters, I mean, I’ve touched on this a lot. The community aspect is second to none. To not only find people with similar interests, but to also be Jewish is an added bonus. And so starting with the community and meeting those people can only enhance the experience for you to be able to have people to go to services with, to be able to have people to go to Shabbat dinners with, to do events or to do a run club, to do a cooking club, to do whatever it is that you want to do, to have those people.
Ethan
It starts from there. And then once you have those people, it can only grow it from. For me, I met my people and we we grew into leaders. And I think with Hillel, there is some effort on your end as well to continue to show up. And but you don’t need to be in a leadership position to be a Jewish leader.
Ethan
If you show up to events with your community and you’re an active participant, you are a Jewish leader and you are a very much a vital piece of that Jewish community on the campus there.
Noam
So give it a chance. Whatever your interests are, there’s something on campus for you. And you have a Jewish community from all different backgrounds. Yeah. Orthodox or foreign? Conservative, nondenominational, whatever it is. Yeah. And it’s just people who have the part of the same background. Part of the same people coming together.
Ethan
Exactly.
Noam
Yes. Take that first step, and then they’ll take it from there.
Ethan
Exactly.
Noam
Tell me about October 7th as a freshman.
Ethan
So I remember it happened. Of course, like it happened in the morning there. So back here it was late at night. So I was going to it was maybe 11 p.m. ish when it happened.
Noam
11:29 p.m. on our time. Okay.
Ethan
1129 I remember seeing the news and I was like, oh, there’s no way. Like, this is definitely like something small, like, I’m going to go to bed and like, I’ll read about it in the morning. And that was kind of it. And then I woke up the next morning and it was not something small. It was much bigger than what I thought.
Ethan
And so my first initial reaction was, text my friends who are in Israel. So I reached out to everyone I remembered and asking, like, if you were okay, do you need anything? Are you safe? Like all those sorts of things. And I wasn’t expecting a response immediately at all, but I wanted them to know that if they looked at their phone, they saw that I was there for them from afar.
Ethan
And I saw and knew what was going on. And if they ever needed someone to talk to or to call, I could be that person for them. And so at the time, I lived with three other Jewish students in our apartment and so or sorry, this was freshman year. Nevermind. I had one of their one Jewish friend who was my my roommate, and, we it was just like a shock and like, I went to class and I did not go to class.
Ethan
I’m trying to. I’m. The days are. Yeah. But it was kind of crazy. And I went to Hillel to, like, hang out because they said that, like, doors are open. Please come by if you need anything. And I just went to just, like, try to understand what was going on. Even though I fully didn’t, I don’t think many people fully understood what was going on at the time.
Ethan
But, within a couple of days, we had a vigil at our Hillel. Our administration came out to speak, and they said that, like, we are here for our Jewish students, we are here to support you guys. Which is truly amazing. And we had we’re standing room only it we filled up our ballroom, we had all three rooms opened up, and I think we had 600 students there.
Ethan
At the vigil supporting we had a couple speakers. The Hillel and the rabbi both spoke. But it was just really, truly amazing to see the Jewish community of Miami come together and see that everyone is here for each other.
Noam
Okay.
Noam
42% of college students reported experiencing at least one instance of anti-Semitism on campus in general. 38% reported being afraid to express their views on Israel on campus. 73% said they follow news on Israel. Only 25% said they felt excluded or had been excluded from a group or an event on campus because they’re Jewish. 23% said they felt that faculty promoted anti-Semitism or an atmosphere hostile to Jewish students.
Noam
By contrast, 32% said student life or student activities had promoted anti-Semitism or an atmosphere hostile to Jewish students. And one more. Nearly half of Jewish students, 4,747%, have experienced some form of prejudice on campus because of their Jewish identity. I want to hear from you. As a University of Miami student.
Noam
How did these numbers resonate with you? What are your what is your reaction to it?
Ethan
I think I’d like for, I mean, seeing the news, some of the numbers, like I’m not surprised by in the sense of like what we’ve been seeing from other college campuses. I think some are surprising, but at the University of Miami, we, like, I would say, people are very happily to express their Judaism, their love of Israel.
Ethan
Like all of the above, they’re very passionate about expressing it. I wear my David out. 24 over seven there, and I, I feel very safe and I feel no pressure to hide it. But I.
Noam
Never really experience any anti-Semitism at university either. Right.
Ethan
At University of Miami? No. We had a minor incident last semester, but it was taken care of instantly. And so there was really nothing to worry about.
Noam
The national cabinet of Hillel.
Ethan
Yes.
Noam
And so is your insistent with your peers or is it different?
Ethan
I would not say it’s consistent at all. Was it mid August? We had a meeting up in D.C., the first ever one for the student cabinet to get together. And of course, like Jews coming from college campuses, one of the major topics of discussion is going to be what is anti-Semitism like on campus? How are you dealing with it?
Ethan
Because some people who are having, instances or major instances that are going on, they want to see what is working on other campuses and how can, how can we take that and use it to see if it’ll work to minimize the anti-Semitism that’s there? And so I’m sitting there and people are telling me about their like, what’s going on and stuff.
Ethan
I’m like like, I felt bad, like, I apologize, but the University of Miami, we have no issues and people are like them. What are you doing to do so? And my my thing is what is your reaction? What reaction? Your what is your connection and your relationship with your administration? Because it all I believe it all starts there.
Ethan
As if they’re supporting you. Then it’ll trickle down and it’ll be okay. And if they’re not, which I have my people where they’re actively not supporting them, then it’s how do you go about it from there? How can we discuss how formally formulate a relationship with the administration, even if it’s not perfect? Having a conversation and starting there could be valuable.
Ethan
So for us, we had our relationship with our administration pre October 7th. And so we were able to have a strong strong relationship. And so when it happened it they were there for us immediately.
Noam
you feel like they see you and you see them. Yeah.
Ethan
Yes.
Noam
Sounds like it. It feels like you’re playing for the same team.
Ethan
Yes, we are playing for the same team. And the thing is, is University of Miami, we are a private institute, so we have to like there are rules and we have to abide by them. And so the rule goes on both sides. And so recently after well after ten seven canes for Palestine came onto campus and they couldn’t say no because there was so there was support for them.
Ethan
But they but they had to follow the same rules that we follow. I don’t know what the exact guidelines are, but they’re not aggressive. Yes. And if they are, immediately gets shut down. So like for us, we’re all playing by the same rules. And so as long as one isn’t doing anything wrong there.
Noam
So so I want to go. That’s not the standard establishment for you. What do you recommend to them to how could they be an activist or care about what they care about, if it’s not exactly in line with the establishments views on Israel and Zionism. Let’s say it’s a little bit different. What do they how do they express themselves on campus.
Noam
How could they be an activist without without harming and hurting another community?
Ethan
I’m not entirely sure. Because when you were talking about, like, Zionism, our campus is very pro ism.
Noam
What is Zionism? Because. Because here’s a stat that I think throws people off. 37% of American Jews identify as Zionist. It’s not a lot, and 88% believe that they are to be a Jewish and democratic state. But what does that mean?
Ethan
I think Zionism is that there should be a Jewish state, but it’s also also part of the equation is returning to the homeland of Israel, of where current day Israel is. I think that’s also part of the the definition that when you say 88% of people say Jewish people should have a homeland, they don’t necessarily they may not necessarily may not necessarily believe that it should be in that spot itself.
Noam
Do you think that’s what that’s what is a.
Ethan
I.
Noam
Don’t state, but it could be anything.
Ethan
I don’t know what where their head is at with that. I, I think Zionism is that there should be a Jewish state and that we should be returning to the homeland.
Noam
But the Jews did return to the homeland. Yeah. 1948 and now there are over 7 million Jews living on me and self-determination in Israel.
Noam
And the way I view Zionism is it’s something that’s still happening. But what it means is to return dignity to the Jewish people. To have their own land, their own culture, their own people, and to continue building that land, to continue pioneering and not just receiving, not just inheriting, but doing something about it, being actively engaged. I call it dirt under your fingernails.
Noam
Zionism. Like really like when you describe your experience in the desert, like being part of that and having that whole experience. Yeah. And I wonder whether or not, when you talk about Zionism, when any of us talk about Zionism, what we really mean, what is it that we’re what is it that we mean when you hear the word Zionist?
Noam
Are people using that word as a pejorative, or are they using that word as a compliment? Oh.
Ethan
I feel like they could be using it either way. It’s kind of like a word that there’s no real definition, straight definition of what it means in sentence when you’re describing someone as a Zionist.
Noam
Is it like saying that person’s a Jew and that person’s a Jew? Like, is it the true? Is that the same word could mean very different things?
Ethan
I think so. I think excuse me in the sense that you’re using it.
Ethan
It could be seen differently. And so like, I don’t know, like the word itself has changed over years and like, how people view it when you say the word Zionist. I was actually listening to your podcast the other day about the. The the. Yeah, the Durban 2001 conference. And like you can clearly see from that that like that the definition of what a Zionist is has drastically changed.
Ethan
And it now has a new meaning to, to people.
Noam
That people are starting to say that to be a Zionist means that you’re racist. Zionist means that you are antagonistic towards and other people. And that’s not my definition of Zionism.
Ethan
Not mine either.
Noam
So I was wondering, like if I were to say, hey, to be a Zionist means you have to agree with the Israeli government, yes or no?
Ethan
No.
Noam
Right. So I, I, I think what’s important in the universities is that there’s something called what I call why is it where there are so many different perspectives on Zionism with one core identity, which is that the Jewish people are connected to the Jewish homeland and having sovereignty and self-determination and agency, and that one homeland is what matters.
Noam
And some of us can like the decisions. Some of us could not like the decisions. But the project of Zionism is a project of what happens when you have sovereignty.
Noam
How do you exercise your power? Yeah, I might like some of the decisions. I might dislike some of the decisions, but that is what it is. And I just want young people to be in the conversation. Yeah, whatever your opinion on that is, that’s up to you. But be in the conversation.
Ethan
Yeah. And I think when, when we were at the international meeting in D.C.. One of the things we talked like we were talking to Adam Lehman and the CEO of Hillel International.
Noam
Very good soccer player.
Ethan
By the way. Okay. I’ve never seen him play, so I got to. All right, I need to go see this then. But he mentioned that, like, right now we have the largest generation of Jewish student leaders. How can we continue to get them involved and continue to get them to push for more and, like, be outspoken and like, how can we how can we, as Hillel, be able to do that?
Noam
Question for you about Israel. If I gave you $1 billion, $1 billion?
Noam
What would you tell them to do?
Ethan
I don’t know, I think people say.
Noam
I don’t know if you agree with this. I’ve heard this people say Israel’s PR is so bad right. Yeah. Right. So if you gave them $1 billion, $100 billion, I’m making up a number of sound like a four year old billion dollars, whatever the number is, what would you say? Do you do this differently?
Ethan
I don’t know, I think when you’re talking about PR, I think you couldn’t you could put so much more money towards PR, but there’s still going to be this, like on social media, this lack of misinformation or thoughts that go out there that are still going to go viral and people are still going to be able to hear those sides of things, even if they were to put more money into PR.
Ethan
And now, yes, I would love if there was like better PR, but.
Noam
Yeah, for better PR.
Ethan
I don’t. I’m a finance major, I’m not a PR major.
Noam
But this is what I’m kind of getting to like. So let’s say you had $1 billion. When you say actually don’t spend money on PR, that’s not what you should be spending it on. What would you say the Jewish world should spend billions of dollars on?
Ethan
I think it’s investing in the future leaders. How can we continue to push and allow these, this next generation of Jewish leaders to grow? Now there’s tons of stuff out there to be able to allow you to grow, but can we do more? And so I think that could be a pretty good piece of it.
Ethan
It’s like what investing in the future almost is, what I think.
Noam
Give me an example of a future that you want to invest in. Is that Jews doing more, doing more communal work together. Is it interfaith work? Is it Shabbat? Is it, is it going to having Jewish music concerts? Like what? What is the thing? What is Jewish leaders like? What? What is the thing that you’re like, this is what we should be investing more.
Noam
And is it going to Jewish state schools, a Jewish camps? Is it youth groups like what’s the thing that you’re like a kind of billion dollars? I’m a finance guy.
Ethan
I think dollars invested. No, I’m, but.
Noam
So what’s the best investment?
Ethan
I think the best investment could. I don’t want to say, like, interfaith stuff because people are going to. People are Jewish in their own ways. So how can we find a way where all Jews of all sects can still come together? So community work, leadership development. Suffering and that where there’s no right or wrong way to be Jewish, to be able to do those type of things.
Ethan
So I think investing in some something like that could be really, really powerful.
Noam
Ethan, I want to. Yes.
Ethan
Of course. Yes. And you’re always invited to Hillel for whatever you want to come by for Shabbat dinner. You’re more than welcome to. We have Sebastian Shabbat this Friday. Our mascot, Sebastian the ibis, will be there. We have administration and donors coming. We’re kind of make it like an upscale Shabbat for the fall semester. But you are welcome to come by if you ever want to stop by for an event.
Ethan
We’ll do a running event if you want to come by for a run.
Noam
Club, okay.
Ethan
That’s fine. Like, as long as you finish up. Well, we can make sushi. We can. We’ll make it happen. Pizza and sushi. We can do that as well. We have a pizza oven. We can do that. We can make it happen.
Noam
Ethan, thank you so much for being here.
Ethan
Thank you so much for having me.
Noam
Thanks for being here.
Ethan
Of course.
Noam
Being a leader.
Ethan
Thank you.