Noam
Hey, everyone. Welcome to Wondering Jews with Mijal and Noam. This podcast is our way of trying to unpack those really big questions being asked in the world today about Israel, about Judaism, about Jewish identity, about the Jewish experience. As you may have guessed by now, I’m writing solo today and without Mijal, which I miss Mijal a lot today, but it’s a really awesome episode.
We are already a few episodes into our series on denominations, and I personally have learned a ton, I know Mijal has as well, and I want you to be sure to write in, to comment, to tell us what you’ve learned, what you’ve gained, what you’ve uncovered for yourself, what maybe you think about differently now as a result of engaging in this series. And today we’re going to be talking about Reform Judaism with Rabbi Rick Jacobs. He’s the perfect person to speak to about
the history of Reform Judaism, the present of Reform Judaism, the future of Reform Judaism, some really interesting and maybe tough questions about Reform Judaism. He is the president of the Union for Reform Judaism, which represents around 825 congregations here in North America. That’s like two million people. Rabbi Rick Jacobs, welcome to Wondering Jews.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
Good to be with you.
Noam
Thank you, thank you so much. Okay, so here’s what I wanna do. I really wanna understand your story. I really wanna understand Reform Judaism.
There’s no better person to have this conversation within you about what is Reform Judaism? Where do you see it right now? Where do you see it going? So I want to start with your story. Before this recording, you told our producer that your life has been impacted by several denominational practices. Tell me more about that journey and how did you arrive at Reform Judaism being your home?
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
Sure, well, the journey starts where my family was part of a conservative synagogue till I was 10 and I was a reluctant student in Hebrew school. I may have been the only one among the entire Jewish people that that describes my life. And then I became Bar Mitzvah in a reform synagogue. And when I was in college, I applied to be a student on the junior year abroad program at Hebrew University.
And I walked into a seminar taught by Rabbi David Hartman. It was on Spinoza, Maimonides, and Halevi. I’ll never forget the class. I sat down and I literally never got up. Rabbi Hartman became a huge influence on me. He inspired me to actually go spend time on an Orthodox kibbutz in the north of Israel. I thought that everyone who was Orthodox must be like Rabbi David Hartman. Well,
That’s a flawed assumption about anyone in any movement, but I loved studying with him. And when I came back and finished my undergraduate work, I decided I actually wanted to study to be the rabbi. I actually got applications from Yeshiva University, the Jewish Theological Seminary, and the Hebrew Union College. And I was genuinely unclear where I actually ought to go.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
But I chose to come back to reform because I felt like it was really the place, and that was more traditional in my practice, and that was completely OK. And I liked the pluralism. I liked the openness. I liked that we could ask any question about any subject that we were studying. And it’s been my spiritual home since, and yet I’m very comfortable in other expressions and really love to be a student with colleagues and mentors.
Noam
Mm-hmm.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
in other movements and that’s become an essential part also of who I am.
Noam
If the fly on the wall or the standard person just observing the different movements in Judaism, I think what you’d find them saying is that, know, Reform Judaism is the least observant, Conservative Judaism is more observant, Orthodox Judaism is the most observant. That’s how I’m distinguishing between the three. And then Reconstructionist Judaism is a little bit like dot, dot, dot to the side somewhere and trying to figure out exactly where it fits in that conversation.
or people don’t know where to do that. then Sephardic Judaism is its own category, right? I want to know what, your reaction is to that. And then B, I want to know how you would define reform Judaism to someone who’s just like,
like a sixth grader who’s just like, what’s this thing called reform Judaism? Like, reform. I don’t know what that means. I just know the word I’m reform. What does it mean?
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
But first of all, the characterization that you offered, which is a standard one, to me is a cartoon. It’s actually not a description of any of the movements. And I don’t think that one’s religiosity is measured only in the number of things that you do and all of the external trappings. So I actually think a better description, and again, I’ll leave conservative and orthodoxy to, I’m sure colleagues that you’ll talk to and get a better sense. But for me, reform Judaism is a…
powerful and very, very serious expression of how do I live in the modern world? How do I deeply immerse myself in the modern world and at the same time deeply immerse myself in the values and practices of the Jewish tradition?
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
And to me, that essence has to be carried forward. It wasn’t just in 70 of the Common Era that all of a sudden, with the destruction of the temple, we had to go into a whole new way of structuring and living Jewish lives. But that was the boldness of the ancient rabbis. And I think that for me, a reformed Jew is to not be frozen in time. So for me,
the practices, the observances, kashrut, daily prayer, meditation, the holidays. But I think what’s core to being a reformed Jew is that you take learning seriously, very often intellectually rigorous learning, that some spiritual practice must be a part of your everyday, not just when you feel like it. And I would also say that justice is not just a thing that’s when all your
essential things are done, you can do a little justice work. That’s core to being not only Reform Jew, I believe it’s core to being Jewish. I also think Chesed, the idea that we care for one another in our communities is critical. And I think a sense of being part of the Jewish people, past, present and future, and to me, the deep tie into the state of Israel. So those are the things that animate my Jewish life. And you could say, Noam, those are things that animate your Jewish life. But within those categories, I believe there’s more
There’s more elasticity and more choices that I would make and that others make within the Reform movement. Some people choose to do one of those things. They’re serious learners. They don’t want to do so much Jewish spiritual practice or they’re justice warriors. And that’s how they define their Jewish commitments. Or maybe it’s, you know, in working very much with the wider Jewish people over the state of Israel.
So for me, think including some from all of those categories, that’s what makes a more integrated Jewish life.
Reform Judaism has all of them, but not all of them in some fixed state, but in an ever changing, adapting and growing expression of Jewish life.
Noam
All right.
Noam
So the word reform in terms of reform Judaism, like you have the word conservative, which means, you know, to preserve something, to conserve something, to make sure that you’re never supposed to give a definition with the word that’s in it. But it’s kind of like it’s on the nose. You’re conserving something from the past as a reaction, my understanding from the history to the reform movement, the reform movement saying we want to do what the word means as a verb, which is to reform, right? So.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
Correct.
Noam
So what was being, can we go into the history a little bit? What was being reformed? And I believe it was, I wanna get into this a little bit, but the Pittsburgh platform in 1885, something like that. So that talks about this reforming of Judaism. And there was previous scholars like Abraham Geiger beforehand. But what is being reformed and,
What you were just articulating to me was like, you’re saying, well, actually it’s not being reformed, it’s actually returning to ancient Judaism is what it sounded like to me, or like the ancient rabbis in many ways. So which one is Is it a return to what ancient rabbis were doing in their pursuit of justice, or is it a reforming of something, or how would you explain that?
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
I think it’s definitely, first of all, you used it in the past tense, which a lot of people do, they call it reformed Judaism, reform. It’s an active ongoing verb. Why I cited the ancient examples, I think it had been more fundamental to ancient Judaism, the idea that we actually had to have the muscles of re-imagination and reform. It was built in more. And I think over time it had become more ossified. So for me,
Noam
Mm-hmm.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
It definitely is an ongoing reform. What did we want to reform? I think that Judaism had become so associated with a strict set of practices. And in some ways, the ethical, the moral became kind of if there’s time. And I think it also became the famous Moses Mendelssohn, I’ll be a German on the street and a Jew in my
Noam
Uh-huh.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
Like this was a real time of ferment. Like how am I going to try and make, and not just worry about how people would accept me, but actually knowing that modernity has some extraordinarily beautiful things, whether it’s culture, ideas, that I want to actually partake of those. But I also know that the Jewish tradition is beyond, you know, brilliant and essential for the living of a good life.
a just life. So I think the reforming was to take some of the rigidity
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
And some of the, what they felt was an overemphasis on traditional practice and not as much about their life of ideas and moral exploration and living. And they wanted to have a Judaism that was modern, not just an appearance, but it’s an incorporation of the positives of modern life.
Noam
I’m wondering, I’m just putting Reform and Orthodoxy right next to each other for a second. If the argument is that Orthodox Judaism, there’s particularism and universalism, Orthodox Judaism thinks much more from the particularist lens and is focused much more on that, which includes Jewish behavior of Shabbat, of kosher, of taking care of their own community. And Reform Judaism,
perhaps is more focused on the universalistic end of that spectrum, focusing on, like you just described, doing a lot of good things for other people, ethics and morality, not as a, if there’s time, but as an essential element. Would reform Judaism, not reformed, would reform Judaism say that about Jewish law also? like, would you say to somebody, no, no, it’s a great thing to keep Shabbat or it’s a great thing to keep kosher.
which is the particularist aspect of Judaism. So Give me a window into how you think about the universalism versus particularism in this world of reform Judaism.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
I think the reform movement has always believed that it’s the dynamic tension. I mean, It couldn’t be more perfectly expressed than in Hillel’s dictum, right? If I’m not for myself, who will be for me? I mean, to me, the ultimate statement of the picture, I… But if I’m only for myself, if I only care about me, my family, my tribe,
what am I? And I think that how you answer, it wasn’t by the way, which one of those do you want? The Jewish tradition demanded that both were essential. For the sake of the peace, of course you’re supposed to share tzedakah with people who live in your community who are not Jewish. That’s just what you do and to visit when they’ve had a loss. So it became a part of traditional Judaism. And I think reform understands
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
that universal is essential. think contemporary reform, and I think in the 19th century, it was one way, the 20th century, looking at the 1930s and into World War II, if you kind of had this naive belief in progress and that everything was coming together and the messianic days were soon to dawn, you had a rude awakening. And that’s where reform dramatically shifted towards, first of all, embrace of Zionism, embrace of
Jewish particularity. And I think to this day, we’re trying to rebalance the dynamic tension between the two.
Noam
You know, you jumped ahead to talk about the Zionism aspect. I was going to get into that. I think one of the questions that you probably get asked often, but something that I have wondered about for a long time, the other aspect of the Pittsburgh platform argued that the Jews are no longer a nation and don’t have a desire to return to the land of Israel, then called Palestine.I think a lot of people are wondering what is the deal with Reform’s certainly initial disdain, I would even say, for Zionism or discomfort with Zionism. And do you see echoes of that in the present with Reform Judaism and how what I’m hearing about is that a number of people
who are starting to become rabbis in the reform movement and others, but certainly in the reform movement, are suspicious of a deep connection to Israel and Zionism. And I don’t mean is like critical of Israeli policy, but supportive of a Jewish state. That’s not what I mean. That’s a little bit of a red herring. That’s not what I’m referring to. I mean, people who are actually uncomfortable with Zionism.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
Yeah, so first of all, let’s go back to the 19th century. I want to get to the 20th and then the 21st century because that’s where we are right now. But in the late 19th century, first of all, you have to understand when Napoleon was the one who really pushed Jews to say we’re a religion, not a people, because that was the ticket to be accepted in society. And then the notion that Jews were a religion is not an indigenous Jewish idea. That was really kind of quite a contortion.
Noam
Mm-hmm.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
And I would say that it fit into their worldview that, you know, nationalism was also kind of limiting. We’re talking about trying to bring universal peace and harmony. Why would we be so committed to the nationalism, whether it’s German or French or Italian or Jewish nationalism? That all made sense to them. And it was very idealistic and it made perfect sense. The time you get to the 20th century, it not only doesn’t make sense, it becomes offensive, right?
Noam
Mm-hmm.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
this idea that we lose touch with the Jewish peoplehood. And, you know, when we think of, you know, the anti-Zionism or the non-Zionism of the early reform movement, what I’m most proud to say is we’re currently the largest Zionist movement in North America. And I take that as a strength, right? That’s part of the reforming. One of the things that we’ve reformed were our own ideas about something called peoplehood and Jewish nationalism called Zionism. So I think that’s
definitely a huge strength. And the shift comes in the late 30s, obviously, as the world is changing and the darkening, particularly thinking of the number of early reformers who were part of the German Jewish experience. That was a very rude awakening, as you know, from your not only study of Jewish history, but your teaching of Jewish history. And then, with 1948, the birth of the State of Israel,
And all of a sudden this notion of what had happened during World War II and the Holocaust, I think it became clear that what was is not at all what is needed now. And the building of this Zionist movement within the reform movement, you know, with a semester program in Israel for high school students, the first year of every Hebrew Union college we’ve been in class begins with the whole year of study in Jerusalem. And I think that
your characterization of a few students oftentimes is used to characterize all the students. Well, I teach in the Hebrew Union College. I think it’s wrong in that you could make a general statement about where they come from. Many of our students come from having spent significant time in Israel. And for them, it’s about people and family. They may be in love with Israel and not in love with
Noam
Yeah, tell me what you see. Tell me what you see. Tell me what the characterisation is wrong.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
the government, but that’s true no matter which government. And by the way, I’ve met a few people in the United States who love this government, but not that last one, or they’re loving the one that’s coming. So the judgment of how connected you are is not by whatever you agree or don’t agree with, policies of a government.
Noam
Huh? Right.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
So I think they’re very often learning and evolving and stretching themselves to understand what it means to be connected to Israel today. But I would say that many have a question, but the JF and A study that came out
just a few weeks ago, said that even people who use terms like anti-Zionist, non-Zionist, and Zionist are not using them precisely. And the overwhelming number of North American Jews feel attached emotionally to Israel and are supportive of the existence of a Jewish democratic state. I think that describes our reform movement as well as the other movements.
Noam
Yeah, so I think it’s really interesting that that JFNA article that came out this that around 80 to 90 percent of young Jews support or believe in or like the concept of a Jewish and democratic state of Israel, but very few of them identify as quote Zionist. Right. And it was very hard to make heads or tails from that. But maybe it’s because the definition of Zionism is something that is amorphous for people, ambiguous to people. And and
They associate it with something that it is not. They associate it with, like you said, support of this specific government policy. It was a very fascinating study, and a lot of us have been talking a lot about it. Do you, I have a very odd question for you. I’m gonna give you an annoying hypothetical. Ready for this one? I just thought of this. I just wanna know your take on this. Let’s say, I’m piecing this together, universalist and particulars. Let’s say,
the state of Israel.
said, you know what, for whatever reason, for security reasons or whatever it is, that we need to be a Jewish state and we’re going to put our democratic values to the side. Or they said, you know what, we’re going to be a democratic state like Mamdani said, he wants the concept of a democratic state, but of Israel, but a Jewish state, no thank you. I know Israel aspires to be and claims and persuades the world and themselves.
that Israel is both a Jewish and democratic state. Right behind me, there’s a great book called A Jewish State, 75 Perspectives from JPPI. You have an article in there, okay, about Jewish and democratic state, right? So it’s like all different perspectives on this. But if, let’s say Israel was Jewish and not democratic, would that, do you think that you or the reform movement would be supportive of the Jewish state if it started losing its democratic?
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
I have an article in there. Yeah.
Noam
flavor.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
So because we’re both Jewish leaders, I’m going to answer your question with another question, another hypothetical. What if it was hafuq? What if it was the opposite, right? That it’s democratic and not Jewish? I would fight that, you know, with all my heart and soul. I think to me, the idea that it’s, you know, you could take one or the other, to me, is impossible to imagine. And I feel like they need to be fused together. But the democratic part, by the way, is not anti-Jewish.
Noam
Okay. Yeah.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
It’s not secular. To me, it’s very incontinent with Jewish values. And I would, you know, stake my life on making sure that they stayed married, because I think that is where the power is. So people talk about a secular, you know, democratic state for all its citizens. I hear that conversation that does not speak to, first of all, the pain of Jewish history and the ability to have sovereignty, be able to build a culture that is, you know, through and through affirming of, you know,
Noam
Mmm.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
language, culture, religion, all the things that matter. So I am, you know, it’s a hypothetical, but for me, it is a marriage that there can’t be a divorce. And I know people imagine there could be a divorce. I would stake my life on making sure they stayed together.
Noam
Powerful, powerful words. Speaking of the word Democrat and Democratic, I want to turn back to the American story and the Reform Jewish identity as it relates to the Democratic Party. We found a survey from 2020 that said 80 % of Reform Jews identify with the Democratic Party. But Jewish politics and Jewish identity is not necessarily part of any specific political party. And we don’t
fit neatly into either party in the US, especially after the 7th of October and the fractures that we’ve been seeing around Israel and Zionism, yes, on the extreme right, but very much so on the progressive left as well. So how do you, as the leader of the URJ, of Reform Judaism, how do you think about charting that independent path, especially around something like the Iran War?
where you took a very, very nuanced stance. So tell me about that.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
So first of all, I think that people have noticed the voting patterns of many, not the majority of reformed Jews. That’s over, by the way, decades. not actually, it was a new survey that you cite, but it’s been a consistent finding for decades. We are largely people who vote in a more liberal or progressive political line. And yet we are not affiliated with the Democratic Party. People think sometimes that our
more progressive sermons are somehow talking points that are sent to us from the Democratic Party. Like, did you get your, know, holiday sermon topics? And the truth is, I think our job as religious and Jewish leaders is to, you know, frankly, get inside the issues. And when they align with this party or that party, they can have our support. But we actually have to base them on Jewish commitments and Jewish values. And I would say that
Can I just use the 12-day war as an example? June of 2025, when the United States joined Israel in trying to, as the president said, obliterate the nuclear program of Iran, which, by the way, has been an existential challenge to the Jewish people and not just the state of Israel, because the stated goal was to harm Jews wherever they are and to wipe Israel off the map.
Noam
Yeah, and they’re talking about in June of 2025.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
I actually said, I said publicly after the US joined and bombed the nuclear sites, I said that Israel and the world are safer places today. And I said, I am grateful to the president of the United States. Well, I’m just going to tell you that not everybody was happy. And I use the baseball analogy because I love the game of baseball. I said, if a pitcher is somebody you hate,
Noam
Right. Right.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
they throw a ball right over the plate in the strike zone. We call that a strike. If the pitcher you love rolls the ball to home plate, it’s a ball. don’t care. So the truth is you don’t have to agree with someone’s entire set of policies, but you can and must be appreciative. And I was publicly appreciative. I can tell you not everybody in my movement thought that was the appropriate thing to do. I felt very strongly. I also with the current
military campaign going on with Israel and the United States, I actually spoke at the J Street conference and I gave the first keynote. And frankly, I made a very clear differentiation between what the public stance of J Street was about the war, which was perfectly aligned with the Democratic Party’s view of the war. And I said, one can be very, very much questioning the lead up to the war.
the lack of articulation of the goals of the war, of the fear of there won’t necessarily be a built-in end to the war. You can believe all those things and that 90 % of Jewish Israelis supported the war because they knew that their long-term safety was dependent on degrading, if not eliminating Iran’s not just nuclear, but even their
conventional military capability. Like to me, could hold all those things can be true at the same time and they are and they were. I can tell you that was not the most popular view among the people at the conference. But I felt really strongly that when I speak, I don’t speak what my personal views are and I don’t speak what the political implications are. I try to speak more independently and coherently based on the things that we as a movement have
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
studied, debated, and decided. That’s actually what informs a statement that we make or an interview that I might give or one of my colleagues. Because the truth is, you know, political parties don’t have all of the truth and all of the values that we might want. So I think our job is to be independent and at times to be critical of whoever happens to be.
Noam
Mm-hmm.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
in office with our Jewish values and our core teachings as the thing that we measure against. with our Jewish values and our core teachings as the thing that we make sure of.
Noam
What’s the future of Reform Judaism and maybe denominations in general?
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
By the way, I’m not as, you know, focused on the denominations have to continue. Honestly, they’re instruments. And a movement, by the way, like the civil rights movement, was a group of people who had a very common vision that they wanted to see, you know, kind of really take root in the world. So for me, the reform movement is growing. It’s continued to grow. That’s what Pew shows.
Now you could say, cause I’m reading your mind, I’m looking at you Noam, we don’t know each other well, but I think I’m reading your mind and you’re saying to me, Rick, you know, they probably like Reform Judaism because it’s the least demanding. And so, you know, of all the choices, think I’ll take that one. I actually don’t think that’s the, it’s the answer for some. I’m going to give you that.
It’s not the answer for many. And I think the idea that it’s egalitarian, that it’s joyful, that it’s serious, intellectually rigorous, and ever expanding and ever changing, I think those are the things that really appeal to people. And by the way, reform has gotten far more traditional in many ways. It upsets some of the old timers. You know, it used to be that if you wore a kippah into a reform synagogue, someone would say, don’t. Or,
Noam
I remember, I grew up in Baltimore, there was a synagogue that my school was in, and in that synagogue, they were told to remove their kippahs before they davened. Or not to remove them, weren’t wearing them, but you were not supposed to wear them when you were davening. So that was, I thought that that was like folklore, but it’s not folklore you’re saying.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
Yeah, no.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
It’s not folklore and it’s now literally you won’t find it. And what I think is powerful is that you’ll see, and I love this as a rabbinic student, I was more traditional in my practice, but someone could be leading Tefillah in a morning service for the Hebrew New College Seminary in Jerusalem or New York or Los Angeles or Cincinnati. And that person, one person could be wearing Talit Kippah Tefillin. Another person is wearing Talit Noot.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
kippah and utphelin, and someone else wearing none of the above. But here to me was the thing that I’m most proud of. Nobody turned to the other one and said, that’s inappropriate, right? The person who was wearing every traditional aspect wouldn’t turn to somebody who wasn’t and say, you you really should put a kippah on, should. Now you might say that feels superficial. I think what it means is the choices that people make are respected. And by the way, I think that the Daghesh on ritual
Noam
interesting.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
over ethics. Again, it may be the marriage that you’d like them always to be joined together. But the truth is, think, Reform Judaism then, now, and probably going forward, puts ethics in a primary position and wants ritual to be meaningful, to help people grow, wants theology, our relationship to God, be central.
So I think within Reform Today is you’ll see a mixture, but around ethics, I think there is obligation and not just what feels more meaningful to me. And I think obligation is an essential category of Judaism, but it doesn’t mean always the Shulchan Aruch, the code of Jewish law. But the obligation, you know,
The philosopher Emmanuel Levinas said, you know, the gaze of another obligates one. You know, when my son is in a little league game, he says, Abba, are you coming? You know, it’s the championship game. It’s like, you know, everybody’s going to be there. Abba, can you come? And like, is that an optional? No, I’m not putting you on the spot, but is that an optional moment to say, yeah, you know what? I’ve got this thing. I’m kid.
Noam
Yeah.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
Or, you know, I’ll use it in more personal one, like it’s your anniversary, you know, my wife and I are married a long time and I like going, we’re coming up on 40. Coming up on 40. Yeah, it’s a huge one. Man, I’m working on it, but luckily don’t let anybody on this podcast like blow my cover. I’m working on it. But the truth is, if I forget that, like, yeah, it’s not obligatory. It’s just the thing. Some people do it. It’s a hallmark greeting card. No.
Noam
How many years? How many years? That’s a big one. You doing anything good for her?
Yeah. Okay. You’re working on it. Okay, good.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
Relationship brings obligation. And my relationship also to the Jewish people brings obligation not just to the people I know or to my family, but to people I’ve never met. People are serving in the IDF, people who are in Ukraine, trying to literally stay alive. So I think the idea of obligation is a serious category for all of our denominations and expressions. But I think a lot of modern Jewish philosophy would see that actually in different ways.
Noam
Mm-hmm.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
But if you take obligation out and everything is just whatever I choose, whatever is comfortable, I don’t think that’s a spiritual practice that’s worth giving one’s life to.
Noam
All right, so I wanna end with just two questions about your recent travels. One, you were in Jackson, Mississippi, and also you spoke at Temple Israel in Michigan. I first wanna hear, can you just tell me a little bit about the Jackson, Mississippi trip and your visit there? And what moved you? And what moved you? What moved you?
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
I was there twice. Yeah. What moved me is this is one of our oldest congregations. They joined the Union American Hebrew Congregations in 1874. They were founded in 1861 during civil war. They’re in Mississippi. so their longevity is impressive. And I knew them because there’s one of our reform camps is 40 minutes in Utica, Mississippi. It’s called.
Jacob’s camp, no relationship to me. And I literally was on the phone immediately. What can we do? How can we be supportive? And they said, well, it’d be great if you come. So I went and I have to say what was most amazing is a number of their sea freight, two of their sea freight to our were incinerated, but a few of them actually were just overcome with the water from the, know, the, you know, the sprinkler system.
and some of the soot. the sopher said, unroll them and leave them open and air out. So where could they do that? They didn’t have access to their buildings. So in the North Minster Baptist Church across the way, they opened, they literally, the churches fought over who could host them after they were kicked out. So we had Kabbalat Shabbat at North Minster Baptist Church and the scrolls are literally open.
And the senior minister said, could someone show me around those scrolls? They look really interesting. someone? So honestly, the way that community came together and continues to support them was extraordinary, really extraordinary. And then a few weeks later, a congregation, one of our reformed congregation outside of New Orleans in Metairie arranged for an anonymous donor to give them a brand new safe air tour from Israel. I was there for the siyum. Oh my goodness.
Noam
Wow
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
So these are people who are supposed to be imagined sitting in sackcloth and ashes. They were celebrating. You they brought the new tour in. We finished the last words. So here they are, proud and strong. And the last thing I’ll say about them is this wasn’t the first time they were attacked with firebomb. In 1967, the building was firebombed by the KKK. And the rabbi, Perry Nussbaum, had been very active in the civil rights movement,
you know, the freedom riders. So he was always visiting them in prison, giving them support. And it turns out he also was trying to really support the Black churches that were incinerated. And there were like 30 of them and only the one synagogue that attacked. So they also felt this solidarity that doing justice work was both essential and obligatory, but also it built such a deep relationship with the community. So
They didn’t build this synergy with the Christian community a week before the attack. It’s built over decades, if not longer. And they are alive and vibrant and living Jewish lives, and they’re proud. And I just loved being with them. And we’re having a webinar in a couple of days, again, to think of the three Reformed synagogues that have been attacked just in the last weeks. So the second, last Shabbat,
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
I was at Temple Israel in West Bloomfield, Michigan. It’s our largest congregation. And they have 3,500 households. They estimate it’s about 12,000 people. And it is a hub of activity from early childhood to learning, to prayer, to study. They have a food pantry. I mean, this is a place that’s a living hub of Jewish commitment.
Noam
How many people is that roughly?
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
And what happened there was this attacker loaded up a pickup truck and had cased the synagogue and found a way in and drove it into the hallway, came this close to being right near the early childhood center and was going to blow it up. And he brought machine guns. But he came to a place and it was so constricted he couldn’t get out. And the security, not just the security personnel, but the whole
Noam
Mm-hmm.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
The whole synagogue responded because they’d had active shooter drills. It was just amazing that the teachers in the early childhood center were part of the security team. And they too, on Shabbat, we called up all the teachers from the school so that we could bless them and appreciate them. And I would also say that they too will not be defined by this attack. They’ll be defined by the Jewish life that they live and create. And by the way, not just the churches nearby,
But the Buddhists, the Hindus, and even the Muslim community came and expressed their support. Which they have built also. So when people say, as many do after October 7th, no allies, no people cared for us, stood up with us, I would say you want to check that assumption. I know that some people did disappear and they are no longer allies. Some actually were a little sluggish. Others were actually there.
their support, which they have built also. So when people say, as many do after October 7, no allies, no people cared for us, stood up with us, I would say you want to check that assumption.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
But we can’t ultimately be safe if we only have more cameras, more security personnel. We need those and we need more money from the federal government. We need all that. We also need the deep solidarity of being in community where we actually know that the community stands with us, will support us. And we do that in mutuality. By the way, that get back to the beginning of our conversation, because the idea that I could be a clustered Jewish community, have no contact with all those people around, those are those people.
I’m going to keep just honestly, it brings not only new ideas, new possibilities, it also brings in moments like this, the solidarity that can be literally life saving for us.
Noam
Let me end with the immortal words of Rabbi Rick Jacobs who said, that’s you, who said at Temple Israel in Michigan, let me read it, we refuse to accept a reality where Jewish safety is conditional. Yes, one can be critical of the policies of the state of Israel and still recognize that targeting synagogues or any Jewish institution with violence is not political protest, it is not revenge, it is anti-Semitism, full stop. And then you concluded by saying the following, you said to the people there, you are on
the front lines of everything that is powerful and good and beautiful and also everything that is challenging. And I think that maybe that’s a good way to end our conversation for now because so much in the Jewish world is challenging, but so much in the Jewish world is also beautiful and good and powerful. And so I really want to thank you, Rabbi Rick Jacobs, for your leadership, for everything that you’re doing for the Jewish people and beyond, and for explaining to me a lot more about Reform Judaism than I knew beforehand. So thank you.
Rabbi Rick Jacobs
Thank you, it a pleasure talking with you.