Noam
Hey, I’m Noam Weissman and this is Unpacking Israeli History, the podcast that takes a deep dive into some of the most intense, historically fascinating, and often misunderstood events and stories linked to Israeli history. This episode of Unpacking Israeli History is dedicated in memory of Armand Lindenbaum, the grandson of Rav Avigdor Amiel, by his wife, Jean, and children, Felice, Amiel, and Ariel Lindenbaum-Sebag.
Okay, yalla, let’s do this.
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Nuseir Yassin, known to tens of millions of people around the world as Nas Daily, grew up in Arraba, an Arab town in northern Israel, to a Muslim family of Palestinian heritage. He went to Harvard. He worked in tech. And then in 2016, he quit his job, picked up a camera, and committed to making one one-minute video every day for 1,000 days. What started as a personal challenge became something much bigger. Today, Nas Daily has 68 million followers. Billions of views. And a media company that reaches 300 million people every single month.
But here’s what makes Nuseir really special, and why I wanted him on this show. He is a proud Israeli Arab. He holds both of those words at the same time, and he refuses to let go of either one. In a world that is constantly demanding that people like him choose, he leans in to the complication. And that has cost him. Followers. Friendships. Deals. He has been celebrated by people who see him as a bridge builder, and attacked by people on both sides who think that kind of bridge building is itself a betrayal.
After October 7th, he wrote something that stopped a lot of people in their tracks. He said that for the longest time he had identified as Palestinian first, Israeli second. And then, after the attack, he flipped it. Israeli first. Palestinian second. Not because he stopped loving Palestine. But because, as he put it, sometimes it takes a shock like this to see clearly.
That is the conversation I wanted to have. Not about politics, not about ceasefires or negotiations, but about identity. About what it means to hold two things that the world tells you cannot coexist. Nuseir, thanks so much for joining me.
Noam
I love your content.
Nuseir
Thank you.
Noam
No, but not in a weird way.
Nuseir
It’s hard to make.
Noam
I love your content. Thank you. And it’s the type of thing that my children and I could watch together.
Nuseir
And, you know, I make a lot less of it these days. Yeah, I have other priorities.
Noam
Priorities. I want to talk about you as a person. You as a content creator. I do want to hear about your priorities and things that were working, but I think it’s awesome. I think what you’ve done for the world is, is like, I don’t know if it’s the reason you did it, but I listen to when I listen to your first podcast that you’ve ever.
Noam
Yeah, released. It was part of Nas talks, not talks.
Nuseir
Yeah. An experiment during Covid.
Noam
Yes.
Nuseir
Okay. And then I discontinued the podcast. Breadth versus depth. I was in my breadth era.
Noam
Okay, well, one of the things that you spoke about was the authenticity of the podcast experience. Yeah. But you I loved listening to how you think about content creation. I love listening to the process. I love, love everything about that. But you, one of the things that you did is you went to so many different communities across the world.
Noam
Yes. So I had this like basic question for you. It’s a philosophical question.
Nuseir
Oh, let’s go. And to the viewer, we’re going to disagree in this conversation. So please pay attention.
Noam
Can’t predict disagreement.
Nuseir
We have to disagree.
Noam
To each other’s thoughts.
Nuseir
Exactly.
Noam
Okay. Are people inherently good or bad?
Nuseir
Oh, that’s. I feel like that’s a very easy question. Do you think that’s a hard question?
Noam
I think that philosophers debated.
Nuseir
This question. No, I think it’s ridiculous for anybody to think somebody is inherently bad. I think it is the most cocky thing to believe that somebody is inherently bad. In my mind, I translate that to, you know, you are born out of the womb of your mother as a bad person. You really think that’s a possibility?
Noam
Well, the great philosophers would say either, you know, people are born with original sin, right? That’s one way to where you live.
Nuseir
And I assume the philosophers were not part of those people. Right?
Noam
And there’s another group of people who would say, no, there’s inherently good. And then there are other people would say, no. The world is neutral and humans are, you know, neutral. And whatever you choose to do that you choose to do with it. But you’ve met so many different people. Yeah. So are you. When you look at people, how do you look at them at first glance when you first meet people from all different communities?
Noam
The reason I’m asking is like the concept of universal morality. Yeah, right. Like, if someone in Papua New Guinea.
Nuseir
Yeah, yeah. Love Papua New Guinea. I love Baba. Yeah.
Noam
You mentioned it on the first podcast. Yeah.
Nuseir
Yeah, exactly.
Noam
And I don’t know. And in Ukraine and in China and in North Korea, you did not have a good experience. And I was one of your first. I was one of the most popular YouTube videos that you’ve done. That’s correct. You did not have a great experience there. But the North Koreans, are they? The people are good, bad.
Noam
How do you think about it?
Nuseir
So I think you kind of alluded to this. My general view in life today is that people people are a lot more malleable than we think they are. They’re almost as malleable as, like rubber band. You know, you can really shape shift humans. And it all boils down to how you grew up. So I think everybody comes out of their mother’s womb, probably like neutral, just a bunch of cells put together.
Nuseir
And I think your experiences shape you to become a selfish person or into a generous person. Your insecurities shape you to be, you know, a successful person or a non successful person. But but but I think everybody, everybody inherently either good or neutral, but no such thing as born bad. And I think that that belief almost leads you towards another holocaust, you know, almost leads you towards another dehumanization of humans.
Noam
To believe that someone is. Yeah.
Nuseir
Yeah. Because you could easily extend that to Somalians. You know, Somalians are born inherently bad, and it’s like inherently not, you know, as successful as us Westerners. And and you see that in the news lately. I just think that’s just a dangerous way to think. And I think you have to put effort not to think that because the you know, how like a, we all regress to the mean.
Nuseir
We all like like you have to, like, really like the default state of the brain is not the thing, and the default state of the body is not to move. So you end up getting fat and dumber as you get older. So. So you really get to fight against the default state. And the default state of the brain is to be lazy and therefore think I’m good.
Nuseir
They’re all bad and evil. So I think you gotta you gotta work out your brain.
Noam
It’s really wild. I was reading about the Rwandan genocide.
Nuseir
You talk about super interesting.
Noam
Yes. Horrific. 800,000 killed? Yes. And you’re like. Wait, what? What is. If so, if the general person. If you were to ask them. The Hutus versus the Tutsis. What? Why why why do you.
Nuseir
There is no clear difference between them.
Noam
There’s no difference.
Nuseir
No. I met like ten. Now they live video about them. There’s no clear difference.
Noam
There’s no difference, right?
Nuseir
No. You should. You should go to the Museum of Reconciliation or something in Rwanda or the Museum of Genocide Museum or something. And it tells you the story of how men killed their wife. They killed their wife because she was a Tutsi. I forgot who killed who. I think the Tutsi. The Tutsis were killed. Yeah. Now, this is our in power.
Nuseir
Yeah. And it’s like the radio and the media affected that over one night. You know, you hear the radio saying, all right, just kill your neighbor, kill your wife, kill your colleague. And they just did it.
Noam
And that gets to the original question of our people, inherently good or bad. And if you start seeing the people around you, your wife, your spouse, or whatever, you could start dehumanizing. Yes.
Nuseir
Right away. Yeah. And that’s why people are malleable. If there wasn’t that radio show in Rwanda, if there wasn’t that propaganda machine from the government, you, you, you know, you wouldn’t have shape shapeshifting humans and they wouldn’t kill each other.
Noam
The power of media, the power of propaganda.
Nuseir
The power while you do.
Noam
So let’s talk about how you worship.
Nuseir
Damn, my brain is thinking.
Noam
Now.. Let’s go.
Noam
I want to know who you were before. Now I want to know a little bit about your identity, how you got to where you got to before you went to Harvard. So you made your parents very proud.
Nuseir
Of a little.
Noam
Bit, and then you started making content. But I want to understand. And. Well, you got a job. You did some, you did that. You know, you did the standard.
Nuseir
All that. Yeah.
Noam
Good stuff. Things.
Nuseir
Yeah.
Noam
I want to understand your upbringing. I want to do one of the things that you said is that, like when you were 13 years old, you went to a bar mitzvah? Yeah. You didn’t understand anything about Jews?
Nuseir
Nothing. I couldn’t even communicate with them. The gospel, Hebrew. And I only learned Hebrew. I never spoke it.
Noam
And so where are you from? Let’s go there. Where are you from?
Nuseir
So I’m from northern Israel, in a small town called Arraba. When I grew up, there was a village, not a town. It’s next to. It’s next to Nazareth. Nazareth is next to Haifa and Haifa. Tel-Aviv. So I’m from near nearby Tel Aviv. You know, for the average listener, I’m from next to Tel Aviv.
Noam
How would you say Arraba? How would I say it?
Nuseir
You wouldn’t.
Noam
Okay. Don’t try.
Nuseir
Okay, okay.
Noam
So I can’t pronounce it, but. Okay. So you grew up in near Tel Aviv, and you met Jewish kids when you were 13, or you knew Jewish kids, but you went to a bar mitzvah. You didn’t know much about Judaism or.
Nuseir
Nothing.
Noam
Even though you you grew up in the Jewish state.
Nuseir
Yeah. Absolutely. Zero. I knew the language. I understood the language. I watched the news every day. Well, we learned it at school.
Noam
Let’s say, if I get this right, Arab citizens of Israel, Israeli Arabs, Palestinian Israelis. Yeah.
Nuseir
Arab, 48, whatever the hell you want to call them. Yeah.
Noam
Don’t I mean. Oh, no, they they do speak.
Nuseir
They they they they they actually understand Hebrew perfectly. They, they.
Noam
In the West Bank and Gaza.
Nuseir
No, not so much. Not so much. But it’s just we don’t practice it enough. A lot of our my parents speak it super, super fluently and same as my extended family, like the older people because they work in that environment. Right. So my dad is extremely fluent in Hebrew, right? He’s like really good at it. I just think the younger generation, that doesn’t really work in a Hebrew environment.
Nuseir
I, you know, as me, I just you when you don’t practice something. But so I’m so excited to tell you, by the end of the year, I made a personal commitment to become super fluent in Hebrew. Super. This year, I understand everything Hebrew. I just never spoke it.
Noam
But give me a sentence.
Nuseir
[Speaks Hebrew]. Okay, so you do speak again that you cannot. Do that. You have a label. But I but I really believe in learning the language.
Noam
Okay, okay, so we’re getting into your story. We’re getting into. We’re getting into Nazi daily. You were someone that grew up with a specific identity. Of what? Palestinian? Israeli. What are you?
Nuseir
You know, my girlfriend tries to define me, and she had a really good explanation for I am. She said, you’re nothing. You are an orb. I’m an orb. That primarily what I am is I want to I want to fly above religion. I want to fly above organized religion. I want to fly above political labels, country labels. I want you to view me as Nuseir.
Nuseir
My name. Right. That’s my primary interest. Now, if you ask me, what am I? What am I in the context of this podcast? I’m. I’m an Israeli citizen. I’m a person who was born and raised in Israel and who.
Nuseir
No matter how much Israel didn’t love him back, he loves the idea of Israel, and he wants to build on that idea with fellow Israelis. The idea of innovation, of democracy, of freedom of speech, of of of of of of of surviving under pressure. I love these ideas. And that is actually what an Arab-Israeli is. It’s surviving under pressure, you know, trying I mean, I don’t think we have as much innovation as a Jewish Israelis, but we should.
Nuseir
So that’s who I am. I’m Israeli first, but I’m also Arab. I don’t share the same Jewish experiences of a bat, although I’d like to, Thank you, I will. Yeah. We love Shabbat. I, I mean, me and my girlfriend, we host about all the times. Yeah, yeah. We can. It is a special thing. It’s a beautiful thing.
Nuseir
I love it. I, I think you should take that and commercialize it.
Noam
I think a lot of people are doing the digital detox thing. The 25,000.
Nuseir
Yeah. Commercialize it some. Somebody should be able to. Maybe we work or we flow or flow by. By Adam. Yeah. Yeah, maybe he’s commercializing Shabbat.
Noam
Okay, but you said you said a lot of things. You said a lot of things that you said is that Israel didn’t love you back.
Nuseir
Absolutely not.
Noam
What does that mean? And in the broader context of someone who teaches Israeli history, I want to really understand what that means for someone who is. And you didn’t describe yourself, by the way, is Palestinian either you said Arab. You haven’t seen Arab. Yeah. And I just want to give statistics for you that I have that my forgave me the most on center survey of Arab citizens of Israel asked, what is the most important component of your personal identity?
Noam
33% said Arab identity, 28% said Israeli citizenship, 24% said religious identity and 13% said Palestinian identity. What would you didn’t say Palestinian. That’s. Two questions. One is why did you not say Palestinian? Yeah. And number two is what do you mean is all didn’t love you back.
Nuseir
So let me answer. Answer the first question first. Palestinian and Israeli are the two most, news making headlines topics in the world. Right. So there was this insane global pressure to force every Palestinian to remain Palestinian and to feel Palestinian until the end of days. You, your kids, your grandkids, your grand, grand grandkids must feel Palestinian. And there’s this pressure is immense, especially immense if you’re a public figure.
Nuseir
Immense. DJ Khalid right. Nas daily. You know, whoever has like 10% Palestinian root, you must continue the struggle. And I think after October 7th, I really had a self introspection. And I said to myself, this extremism does not represent me. I have nothing in common with a person from Gaza. I have nothing in common with the person from the West Bank.
Nuseir
No matter how much I love them, I want to support them. But I have nothing in common with them. You know, 77 years or whatever it is, living under a democracy in Israel with a powerful passport, traveling the world exposed to Hebrew media shapes you into a different human. Culturally, I became different from a West Bank Palestinian and a refugee in Lebanon and a refugee in America.
Nuseir
And so I just asked myself, do I embrace this Palestinian identity because I want it, or is it forced on me by the world? These are really important questions every Arab-Israeli should for us. And I know for a Jewish Israeli, nothing pleases them more than somebody asking themselves questions. Because you you should enforce Israeli identity on all your citizens.
Nuseir
That’s the only way to build a country. You should enforce it on the Orthodox Jews. You should enforce it on the Arab-Israeli. We should all go serve in the military or do some sort.
Noam
Of.
Nuseir
Military or community service. You absolutely must forcefully integrate your citizens into one country. Because Israel is allows too much freedom in a way. Hard to believe what I’m saying is crazy. You know, if you want to be an Orthodox Jew and just study for the rest of your life. All right. Yeah, yeah. If you want to be an ultra orthodox Jew and study for the rest of your life as a form of, you know, fighting for the state of Israel and not even go to the army and just, like, literally live in a yeshiva.
Nuseir
You can if you want to be an Arab, Israeli, Palestinian citizen and advocate for Palestine from your basement inside Israel and travel the world with your Israeli passport and say, I am Palestinian and I support Palestine, you can. And if you want to be a gay person in Tel Aviv in March on the pride and and and have zero respect for religion, you can.
Nuseir
It’s amazing isn’t it? Right. It’s amazing. Beautiful. So that’s why I say so on the extreme of freedom. But you don’t get one Israel, you get five Israel’s.
Noam
And then and then the, the then here’s what happens as a result of all this. Then the the shape ers, the the tastemakers of Israeli society becomes a very small percentage of the country itself.
Nuseir
The tastemaker as in the.
Noam
People who ultimately shape the culture. Meaning if the are not part of this.
Nuseir
Absolutely. Absolutely. And the Ethiopians are not part of Israel either.
Noam
They go to the they participate. They participate seriously in the Israeli army.
Nuseir
I mean, how truthful should we be in this podcast? Whatever. I mean, let’s keep the people listening.
Noam
If you’re going to say there’s discrimination, of course there’s discrimination.
Nuseir
I just say they’re not as integral part of the country as they can be and should be, because we are okay with them doing the menial labor work. We are okay with them doing frontline army work with them. The the not so glamorous jobs. I think I think we allow them to that. No, we should force them to, you know, participate in the economy as much as the Tel Aviv Ashkenazi guy.
Nuseir
I think the number one on top of the pyramid in Israel is you.
Noam
Not me.
Nuseir
The version of you in Israel.
Nuseir
I have eyes.
Noam
It’s the biggest insult. I’m not sure I love my people. Sorry.
Nuseir
My girlfriend is Ashkenazi. Know I’m in love with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, even. Even she sees the difference. Yeah. You want it? You wanted that until you apply for a job, you know?
Noam
Really still. Come on. It’s really society’s like my.
Nuseir
How many non Ashkenazi prime ministers has Israel had.
Noam
How many. Zero. Thank you.
Nuseir
Right okay. That’s it. So what I’m saying is in Israel there is not only five Israel’s there’s a parent. I’m not here to criticize I love Israel. Take that clip it. Put it on the freaking social media. I want to make it better.
Noam
That’s an amazing thing.
Nuseir
We together and we’re here saying there is structural problems. If we solve these, we get a wonderful country.
Noam
Israeli identity. Then what does it mean? What is what you say? You want to be Israeli? What? What does it mean to be Israeli? So what is the what?
Nuseir
Yeah. It’s hard. It really, really is hard to define. If I were to define it and again, everybody will have a different answer. I think it’s giving a middle finger to the world and just surviving. That’s what it is to be Israeli, a middle finger to the world and surviving. And in the last week I, I kind of I was just in Israel and I went to a desalination plant.
Nuseir
Okay, this is going to be the most inspiring story about a desalination plant.
Noam
I love a good.
Nuseir
So so nobody knows this. But before 2005, Israel had zero water from the ocean, from the sea, and all the water came from, like traditional sources, running out of water. You think Jordan is going to give you whatever they have? None. You think Lebanon is going to give you water? They don’t have none. They don’t care about you, Egypt, they don’t care about you, and they have none.
Nuseir
You’re going to die of thirst as a country. And then within the last 20 years, Israel built seven desalination plants. Now 80% of the water from in Israel is desalinated, 80% from 0 to 80% in 20 years. And guess what? There is so much water in Israel right now that they’re filling up. The Sea of Galilee is the first time in the history of humanity.
Nuseir
I want to say this again. It’s the first time in the history of humanity where a country desalinated water to put it in a lake, where a sea and an ocean saved the lake and the lake of Jesus, no less. Sea of Galilee right now that’s survival through water. And you can do this again through energy, through gas, through technology, through innovation, through having a nuclear weapon.
Nuseir
Okay, that you may or may not have. Thank you. Perez. It is surviving against all odds. That’s what it means to be Israeli to me.
Noam
And the question is who’s contributing to that as part of that? And only if you have equity in that. Yeah, yeah. Do you get to be part of it. You get to do you get to reap the the positives, the benefits of it. So you’re a big believer of integrating fully into society.
Nuseir
Fully.
Noam
And putting religion like, okay, when you hear when you hear Israel’s national anthem. Yeah, it’s.
Nuseir
Such a great question. Yeah, I know the question. But say it for the audience.
Noam
Okay, so my question is Israeli national anthem. I get goosebumps when I hear it. Okay. And I’m an American. Wow. And it’s any man who hold me. It’s about the longing of Jews. By the way, if you hear it, it’s also Jews from the West going to the east, which is interesting. Ashkenazi. Yeah, because most of the Jews living in Israel now are from North Africa and the Middle East.
Noam
Yeah, but the song was written during the time where Jews were primarily migrating or returning from the West to to the Land of Israel, to what was called Palestine at the time. And then that became Israel’s national anthem. And I wanted to know someone who’s so proud to be Israeli, how you feel about it when you are not Jewish.
Nuseir
So how many times do you think I sang the national anthem?
Noam
Could you sing it right now.
Nuseir
In my life? Totally. How many times do you think I sing? Zero zero. That tells you something.
Noam
What does it tell you?
Nuseir
One is. I don’t know it, you know, I know how it sounds, but I don’t know it. Number two is I was never taught it in my schools and Arab schools. I went to an Arab school speaking Arabic. Arab students, 100% Arab students, Muslim and Christian, zero Jewish students. I was never taught it. I was never asked to sing it.
Nuseir
And you know what’s funny? I think that’s a new concept that I was not asked to do it because my dad told me when he was growing up in Israel, when he was growing into his role, he was raising the Israeli flag in school. And don’t quote me on this, but from what I hear, he said that schools were a lot more like promoting the Israeli national identity, raising the flag on Independence Day and celebrating it maybe in the 70s or 80s or something.
Nuseir
And that’s incomprehensible to imagine today. And that’s what I mean by too much freedom. Israel has allowed us to self segregate into an Arab village where, by the way, we don’t want to live next to you guys, you know, the Jews. Okay. Yeah. Being very, very.
Noam
Honest, the Arab citizens of Israel also want their own distinctive.
Nuseir
Of course, whoever comes and says we are such victims and the victim and the oppressor and the press, I hate this whole oppressed oppressor mentality.
Noam
What is the oppressor? Oppressor mentality.
Nuseir
Is like somebody powerful, somebody weak. The powerful is always wrong and the weak is always right. Right. That’s essentially oppressor oppressed. And because I’m always oppressed, everything bad in my city is because I’m impressed. Not because of my actions, not because of my ability to make decisions. It’s because of my pressed.
Noam
It gets back to the beginning of the conversation about like how you’re born. Like you have no choice if you’re good or you’re bad. Yeah, that’s why you don’t like it. Because, like, yeah, you have the condition, you have the ability to change your conditions is what you believe.
Nuseir
Absolutely. I am a living example of that. I was the first Arab-Israeli go to Harvard, and it’s not by luck. It’s a lot of luck. It’s not just by luck’s a lot of luck. To be clear, lots of.
Noam
Luck is the harder you work. Well, here you go.
Nuseir
Yeah, exactly. Like a moving man is bound to meet his luck. What I’m trying to say is we don’t want to live next to you because we. It’s called self segregation. It’s not segregation by the authority of the government itself. Segregation. I do not want a Jewish neighbor. And the Jewish neighbor does not want me as their neighbor.
Nuseir
Simple as that. This is what you get in Israel today. So not only is is the Jewish society at fault here, but the Arab society is also at fault for not wanting to integrate, which it’s just easier to talk in Arabic with people like us. It’s normal human behavior. This is what I mean by Israel has not done a good enough job in integrating both of us.
Noam
Not done it. And you said earlier, let’s get back to this. Israel wasn’t good to you. What did you mean to that?
Noam
Do you still feel that way now?
Nuseir
No, I don’t feel that way now. I’m talking about how I my first 18 years of life. What does it mean? Israel? Not good to me. You know, I you know, I, I go to the Jewish town to buy clothes, I felt inferior, I didn’t feel like equal. I looked at the high end positions and nobody was Arab.
Noam
But there are some court justices that are Arab, and there are members of the Israeli government that are Arab.
Nuseir
Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. It’s good, it’s good. Counteract, you know, you see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you think the 13 year old version of me knows what the Supreme Court was? What do you mean? That’s not an interesting position for a 13 year old.
Noam
Besides being a YouTuber. What is exactly.
Nuseir
Well, anything in government like Prime minister and probably in the news. Are you in the news? You know, are you a news anchor? You know, like, for free?
Noam
Yeah.
Nuseir
She’s a new phenomenon. Not in my childhood. So she’s great, but not not in my childhood. So growing up, I see that, you know, we live here, but we there is a there’s a there’s a concrete ceiling to us. You you can you can only get this much. And later on, I realized that ceiling is is one because we’re not trying enough.
Nuseir
You know, you can actually break that ceiling. And I’m trying to break that ceiling every single day. But it didn’t feel like Israel cared about me from the national anthem. It was not for me. The the general discourse was not for me. And the opportunities did not seem like they were for me. And I had no Jewish friends.
Nuseir
So you can clearly think for the first 18 years of my life, I didn’t feel love back from Israel.
Noam
And then.
Nuseir
And I did not extend any love being very honest. I didn’t extend in love either. That’s why America.
Noam
How did you. How did you start feeling love from Israel?
Nuseir
When I landed at Harvard? Well, and I did in America for the first time, I met my first Israeli friends and 5000 miles away from Israel. When you’re surrounded by Norwegians and Americans from Kansas, you feel a belonging to the Israeli Jew.
Noam
One of my colleagues, Danzig, he has a he has he has that Semite. Have you seen that?
Nuseir
Yeah.
Noam
He’s awesome. He’s awesome. He’s awesome. So he so he’s he’s unpacked. He works for unpack. Oh no way. He’s unpack. Yeah. So he spoke about how when he went to university, he grew up in San Diego. But he’s he’s a fascinating guy and he’s. And his mother’s Guyanese his his dad is I believe. But he said that when he got to college and he met Palestinians, he was like, these are my people.
Noam
Exactly like you were saying. Like, he’s like, I just feel like like growing up as an Israeli, as someone who is like, great, great, great grandparents live in Israel, his and then his grandmother, whatever. And then he met them in the Palestinians in university. There’s like, these are my people also like from the Middle East?
Nuseir
Absolutely.
Noam
You felt that?
Nuseir
I absolutely felt that there is so much more in common between me and a Jewish, gay Israeli television. Then with me and a Palestinian from Jordan, so much more. And it was really obvious my first year at Harvard because I met the Palestinians in Jordan all I like, I didn’t relate.
Noam
Why?
Nuseir
Well, they grew up under a monarchy. You know, you must think this and you must do this and you cannot deviate. Otherwise you’re going to jail. That’s a big part of it. Gay people, what is? Gay people, you know.
Noam
Like, exist.
Nuseir
They don’t exist. So, so so I just could not connect. And I just all I saw was almost like this incessant hate towards Israel. And I’m like, guys, like, I’m from Israel. I know it’s bad, you know, with some stuff, but it’s not that bad. And so it was really wrestling between my personal truth versus what people think Israel is.
Nuseir
And almost always your personal truth wins.
Noam
Two questions follow up for you.
Nuseir
Yeah.
Noam
Let’s see if I remember them. Adam, I am one is let me put my let me speak out of the position of someone who’s skeptical from the Palestinian identity. Yeah, they might say or something sympathetic towards that identity or and I know that you have issues that framing, which I do too as well. And they might say.
Noam
Are you propagandist results. What it sounds like. How do you how do you respond to that?
Nuseir
I respond to that is I would freaking love to be. And this whole idea of making you feel bad for saying your opinion, I’m over it. I’m freaking over it. So I’m over it because it’s it’s a. These questions are asked to instill fear. They’re not asked to get knowledge and curiosity. They’re asking still fear. Are you the Z word?
Nuseir
Oh my God. You know are you as I. Yeah. Are you associate with Israel like like shit the hell up. Number one. Number two is Yeah. Yeah. I want to promote my personal truth, whether you like it or not. And just like you can easily promote Pakistan or Jordan and Egypt for all the terrible stuff that the country does, you still promote it as the mother of all nations.
Nuseir
Egypt. Egypt could do no wrong except put you in jail for nothing, right? Yeah. Why can’t you promote that? No problem. And why can I not promote my country despite its flaws? So? So I hate questions that are predicated on the idea of instilling fear. Are you doing that? Yes, I am. Then what? So? So that’s number one.
Nuseir
I don’t like that. I don’t I don’t like that framing of these questions. And it no longer scares me. Mainly, of course, the first six years of my life, it scared the crap out.
Noam
Of me.
Nuseir
My daily. Yeah. So. And also my whole life it scared the crap out of me. Oh my God, what if they say I am?
Noam
So you came out.
Nuseir
I came out, you know what? Because I have enough money. I have few money and I have enough business all around the world. I have offices in four countries, you know, like un cancel. And when you become a cancer and cancel, Abel, it’s freedom. It’s freedom. So my advice to every listener is become and cancel. So you can say whatever the hell you want.
Noam
You know, it’s. I had Scott Galloway on my podcast in London. He’s, you know, awesome podcaster. Strong opinions. I kind of feel a similar way about the way he comes at issues. And like he he says, like, I don’t understand these questions about whether or not I’m a Zionist is a Zionist. A lot of young Jews don’t buy assignments, by the way, because there’s I don’t know, there’s a statistic that I heard from JFNA from Jewish Federation of North America.
Noam
Yeah. 88% of young Jewish people or Jews believe that Israel should exist as a Jewish and democratic state, and only 37% identify as Zionist.
Nuseir
That tells you there’s a that’s an education gap. That’s all it is. That’s because the definition of Zionism they get from, TikTok. You know, who the biggest Zionist I met in my life? My grandmother, my grandmother, my Palestinian grandmother for hundreds of years is the biggest sign. As I met, she was at Hadassah Hospital last week and she’s 80 years old.
Nuseir
She’s having health problems, and Hadassah Hospital took such great care of her. And it’s like top notch medicine. Started by 38 women in 1914. In New York, 38 Jewish women looked at this part of the world, the Middle East, and said, you know what? There’s not there’s too much poverty. There’s too much disease. Let’s send two women to go build a clinic and give pasteurized milk to kids in the Middle East, because we are Zionist.
Nuseir
That’s literally word for word. What they said 38 women said, we are the Zionist women of Newark, New York. Let’s go and help kids in in Jerusalem and Haifa and all that stuff. And 114 years later, my grandma’s life is saved because of that Zionist project. Now, that’s why my grandma’s Zionist.
Noam
There’s a Palestinian thinker named Muhammad who created a movement called, which is Moderation in Islam. And and he said he was who was very anti-Israel for a long time. And it changed, actually, when he went into an Israeli hospital, when he saw when he saw the experience of the hospitals, the doctors and nurses taking care of. I can’t remember if it was his dad and his mom, but he was like, I thought he thought that they would be opposed to them, that he would, that he thought that they would be opposed to him, that they would be like, you’re like, we can’t take care of you here.
Noam
That’s how he thought. And then he went in there and there was just there was no difference. And there are tons of Arab doctors and nurses there as well.
Nuseir
30%, exactly 30% is Arabs, 3600 doctors and nurses. I know this because I was just there. I know all the numbers.
Noam
Right. So so this is this is about this is this is about identity. This is about the ability to say, I am who I am, period. And so the question that my son asked me to ask you, he doesn’t. And so you feel free to yell at my son. He was 13 years old.
Nuseir
Oh, nice.
Noam
He loved you.
Nuseir
Love. So I started when he was three years old. Incredible.
Noam
Thank you. He loves you. And like I said earlier, he’s like, you’re the only content creator I know that you don’t do it so much anymore. Yeah, but who who? He who? I love watching his stuff. Your stuff with him? Yeah. He asked me to ask you this question because he doesn’t. He doesn’t understand some of the things that you’re saying right now.
Noam
And so his question is, are you pro-Israel or pro-Palestine?
Nuseir
That’s his question.
Noam
To ask.
Nuseir
You that.
Noam
So how would you answer that to a 13.
Nuseir
Year old? Okay. Can I can I criticize you as a father first? Very sensitive thing to do.
Nuseir
We just met.
Nuseir
Why is it either or? And why does your son think it has to be either or?
Noam
Why does he think that?
Nuseir
Why does he think that? That’s the sad part.
Noam
I’ll tell you one reason. He might think that. Yeah, because his father, May, is constantly talking about the nuances of Israeli history, nuances of identity that I actually that his first time going to Israel introduced him to. This is something that most Jewish parents don’t do when they bring their child to Israel. For the first time. I introduced him to Palestinians.
Noam
I wanted him to meet Palestinians in Israel, and I wanted him to see actually, that there are multiple identities here. And I was like, one of the first things that we did, you got to see all the different identities here. So he’s coming from a dad like that. Let me let me interpret myself charitably. It is anything.
Nuseir
To do.
Noam
Is I think that this is like educational psychology. When you’re younger, this is, you know, you’re you see the world through binaries. You see the world through good, bad, black, white, tall, short, pro-Palestine.
Nuseir
I’m a lot of the Nazi data content is that to binary best worst least shortest tallest. It’s really binary.
Noam
So a lot of us and as you get older, you’re able to have more conceptual thinking. You’re able to see the abstractions, you’re able to see, you’re able to see different shades. So it’s an extent I do think it’s a biological chronological age sort of thing. Yeah. But I also think that the way people talk about Israelis and Palestinians.
Nuseir
Is that neither are.
Noam
Is either or. You are the exception. And I think that confuses the heck out of people.
Nuseir
So here’s what I said to your son. Good. Yeah, I like that, I like that. Keep them on their toes. I want to say the son is this, 98% of the planet is empty. Is empty. Right? It’s just land. Nature. Empty. Nobody there. You know, humans only have 2% of the planet, right? So. And there’s 8 billion of us.
Nuseir
So, you know, 8 billion of us are, you know, separating ourselves in 197 countries in, like, a small part of the world, a small section of the world, you know, we can create, I’ll say, this is this kid, thousands of countries and make thousands of more countries and have 80 billion humans on the same planet and share it.
Nuseir
So it’s not either or. I’m not pro-Israel or I’m pro both. And what I would say to your son is there are millions of people living in the West Bank and Gaza who deserve a passport. They deserve a passport. They deserve a freedom of movement. They deserve to travel like your son does. Right? And so they deserve a government.
Nuseir
They deserve sovereignty. So I, I’m always been a believer of two states for two people, no matter how controversial that can be in Jewish circles. And and I think that’s the, that’s the that’s where we should aspire to be. And I know a lot of people disagree with me like the one staters. But you must understand I fight one staters on both sides of the aisle, the Palestinian one staters who are so bigoted that say there is no Israel, and there’s also Israeli one staters who are so bigoted they don’t see a space for for millions of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.
Nuseir
You know, my mobile app developer and the technology company is straight up from Gaza. One of the smartest people in the world cannot travel. He now lives in Malta. But but he doesn’t have a document to travel. Right. You know, through crazy. Yeah. I mean papers, some specific. But you cannot even, like enter half the world or 90% of the world.
Nuseir
So. So what I would say to your son is we are equally indigenous. That’s a term, not by me. Bye bye bye. The father of of of of Daniel Pearl. Were equally indigenous for thousands of years. We lived in this land, and there was enough space for both of us to build 50 countries in that small thing.
Nuseir
Now, we don’t want to build 50 countries, but I think there is space for for two states, for two people. No problem.
Noam
I want to talk a little bit more about Palestinian identity. Yes. What would you say to the people who say there’s no such thing as a Palestinian, that they’re just Arabs who live in the region? What would you say?
Nuseir
What I say to them is, who the hell cares if enough people identify as Palestinian? That means it is a thing, right? Whether you like it or not, if enough people in Barcelona identify as their own state, just given the God don’t own state, right? It is enough. It is a thing.
Nuseir
You know, because I you are to this person that’s saying this, you are nobody to tell people what they identify or not. You’re nobody, right? If enough people exist that say Somaliland is a country, right? And there is, then Israelis accept it. So what I’m trying to say is it is no different if you’re okay with a Somaliland as a country, which the whole world is against, then why are you against Palestine as a country?
Nuseir
Because it doesn’t serve your interests. In that case, the problems in you. So the way I think about it is, look, if enough people want it, it’s a thing. All identity is fake. All money is fake. We don’t have, we don’t have. It’s all okay. We don’t have to go into that debate. But it’s all.
Noam
Man made. I was in Ramallah a few years ago, and there was a speaker, a Palestinian speaker, who was saying to me to the whole group, listen, I really respect Judaism. I respect your faith, I respect your religion, I really respect it. And, you know, whether you’re from, you know, Romania or Bulgaria or Ukraine, I think your religion is a wonderful.
Nuseir
Religion.
Noam
But it’s a religion and and that’s what it is. I raised my hand and, and I said, do respect. I actually defend and believe it’s important to talk about Palestinian identity and to say that Palestinians are a distinct national people, distinct people. That’s developed over time in the early 20th century as all identities are developed over time, all nationalities over time.
Noam
It’s not. There weren’t even nations until the 1920. Whatever. Yeah, something like that 19th century. But for you to tell me that the Jews are not a people is the exact same issue I have when people say that Palestinians are not a people. His argument was that Judaism’s a religion, Judaism’s of faith, not a people, but Judaism has as our construct.
Noam
In Hebrew we say amis does not mean it’s the nation of Israel. That’s what we’re called the people of Israel. Yeah, we’re not the religion of Israel. That’s that’s a foreign import. Yeah. So I think it’s so important to your point. Like if the Jews ra people with a distinct identity.
Nuseir
Then it.
Noam
Is and that’s it. And part of this negation of identity that we keep on doing to our peoples is unhealthy.
Nuseir
By the way, don’t get me started on my society. I just spent the last ten minutes criticizing your society. Don’t get me started on criticizing my society. I don’t want to be the guy who throws rocks at people and has a glass house. That guy is probably the most un-Islamic guy in the world, because the word Israel is mentioned so much in the Quran, so much.
Nuseir
Yet for some reason they deny the indigeneity, the indigenous nature of Jews in the land of Israel. And I just find it to be hypocritical. It’s hypocritical. So? So whatever that guy is saying is like, oh, you’re not a country, you don’t deserve country. He’s being un-Islamic. And we need to really start linking both. Israel is mentioned in the Quran.
Nuseir
There is enough evidence, archeological evidence. I don’t know why we have this conversation. It’s like debating that water is liquid.
Noam
It is. That’s it, that’s it. Well identity matters. Could you read? I printed this out for you. Not that. Okay. I gave you so much, I’m gonna hand it to you. This is a tweet of yours.
Nuseir
Oh, God. That famous.
Noam
Tweet.
Nuseir
The whole thing. You know, I don’t know why this tweet resonated so much.
Noam
Well, maybe we read it out loud in the audience.
Nuseir
Decide personal, personal thoughts. This is October 9th, I believe. Oh, no. October 8th. Wow. 6:20 p.m.. Damn. 9 million views of a tweet. Damn, I didn’t know that. Personal thoughts? Not for everyone. Feel free to skip. For the longest time, I struggled with my identity. A Palestinian kid born inside Israel. Like WTF? Many of my friends refused to this day to say the word Israel and call themselves Palestinian only.
Nuseir
But since I was 12, that did not make sense to me. So I decided to mix the two and become a Palestinian Israeli. I thought this term reflected who I was Palestinian first, Israelis second. But after recent events, I started to think and think and think. And then my thoughts turned to anger. I realized that if Israel were to be invaded like that again, we would not be safe to a terrorist invading Israel.
Nuseir
All citizens are targets. 900 Israelis died. So far, more than 40 of them are Arabs killed by other Arabs. And even two Thai people die too. And I do not want to live under a Palestinian government, which means I only have one home, even if I’m not Jewish. Israel. That’s where all my family lives. That’s where I grew up.
Nuseir
That’s the country I want to see continue to exist so I can exist. Palestine should exist to as an independent state, and I hope to see the country thrive and become less extreme and more prosperous. I love Palestine and I have invested in Palestine, but it’s not my home. So from today forward I view myself as an Israeli, Palestinian, Israeli first, Palestinian second.
Nuseir
Sometimes it takes a shock like this to see so clearly. Wow, I haven’t read it in a while.
Noam
Having having heard yourself read that out loud. Question number one do you? Does this still resonate with you two and a half years later, almost three years later? Is it still resonate with you? And after Israel’s reaction in Gaza?
Nuseir
Great question. First of all, this tweet upend in my life.
Noam
Completely in a good way. A bad way.
Nuseir
Both both a a pen in my life. No, I didn’t think of.
Noam
It as that.
Nuseir
Look, if a random person in Kansas.
Noam
A few months after about the history of Israeli-Palestinian conflict, in a way you’re like, this is going to be the most balanced take. I mean, this is the most.
Nuseir
That was a few months before that, actually. Seventh. Yeah, but he just got viral. Laughter. Yeah. Look, if somebody in America today makes a tweet saying I’m not I’m not like African-American. I am no longer Nigerian American. I am now American Nigerian. What will your action be? Who cares? Literally who cares? You’re Nigerian-American, but then you’re like, in a way, I didn’t think my identity, the self-identity definition, would be such big 10 million person news.
Nuseir
I didn’t think I maybe I’m, you know, I just didn’t think I mattered or my my, my my view mattered. Two and a half years later, I feel even more strongly about it. Yeah. I’ve actually enforced my belief in that. And I think a lot of people look at that tweet and really forget the entire paragraph about Palestine, right?
Nuseir
I love Palestine and have invested in Palestine. Yet every person in the Middle East and Arab person has completely avoided talking about this paragraph. I invested $150,000 in Palestine to buy an apartment as an investment to support, not to live in it and not to make any money. I lost money on it. Yet that’s all the rest. And this is I know I have one issue with the Middle East and the backlash behind this.
Nuseir
This tweet is you don’t see things in nuance. You see a Palestinian saying, I like Israel and therefore you get angry, but you avoid all of the good things they did for Palestine. And that is my problem with the Palestinian society. And the Arab side in general, is you do not allow space for nuance, you do not allow for it.
Nuseir
So, I feel much more strongly about this, especially after the AI revolution and all the technology stuff. I just feel more and more connected to the culture of Israelis. I care about the same things an Israeli Jewish person cares about.
Nuseir
And after Israel’s action in Gaza, does that make me happy?
Noam
Absolutely not. Meaning you don’t think that the way Israel orchestrated that war was the way you you would not that you’re.
Nuseir
Not a military man? I should have been, you know, I should have been forced. So I’m not a military man. I do not know how hard it was or how easy it was. Right. But I do know the average person looks at what happened in Lebanon and says, well, that was pretty targeted, right? Pretty surgical. And what happened in Gaza, it didn’t feel very surgical.
Nuseir
And so I think that’s where the questions people start asking themselves. So so yes, I’m asking the same question. And I think a lot of Israelis are asking the same questions. Could we have done it better with less force? Could we have done it more targeted? I am 100% with Israel killing terrorists 1,000%. You know, the most dangerous thing for a Palestinian is another Palestinian with an AK 47 instilling fear in them.
Nuseir
We live in a society. They live in a society of fear. And I do believe that whatever Israel is doing in Lebanon is freeing the Lebanese from Hezbollah. It does not take a genius to see it. Okay. But you have to be really, really stupid not to see it. But at the same time, could we have done it in a less destructive way, in a more effective way?
Nuseir
Why is Hamas still there? Why is am I still there after all this death and destruction? Why are they still there?
Noam
Because it’s impossible to kill an ideology.
Nuseir
Yes, it is possible. We killed the Nazi ideology. We killed the emperor. Japanese ideology. You can kill ideologies.
Noam
So what’s your answer?
Nuseir
I don’t know, that’s why I’m asking the question. I don’t know, I you know, me and my friends in Gaza are so looking forward to not having Hamas in power.
Noam
Palestinians don’t want Hamas in power.
Nuseir
I have.
Noam
Not been. When you look at the surveys, it doesn’t seem like that necessarily.
Nuseir
So look, maybe, maybe I have, you know, rose tinted rose colored glasses. Right? But I have not met a Palestinian that says I love Hamas. I have not met them.
Noam
They instill fear in the community. And then you have to, yeah, conform to whatever it is that they are expecting.
Nuseir
To be, that there’s one thing you must understand about Middle Eastern culture is that what you see outside is not what’s inside. Public saying is one thing, private thoughts are another. And it’s like, you never show your dirty laundry. That’s why everybody straight yet under, you know, inside homes, at least 5% of the population is gay.
Noam
What they say that 25% of Tel Aviv identifies as LGBTQ seems like a.
Nuseir
Pretty well, I mean, I’m assuming it’s people immigrating from all of Israel to go to the only place, but I actually I view it as like if you look at the countries that are most liberal, like let’s say Amsterdam or Netherlands, I think roughly the percentage of self-identifying gay people is like 5%. So I’m assuming the natural rate of being gay in a society is 5%.
Nuseir
Okay.
Noam
So yeah.
Nuseir
But this is.
Noam
Yeah, beyond my Ken.
Nuseir
What’s your thoughts on LGBTQ.
Noam
Right now?
Nuseir
Maybe I should put you in a corner.
Noam
I have a few more questions. Yes, this is a history podcast impacting Israeli history. Wow. Do you think history matters? And I want I want to understand it. Does it matter to learn the history? Like you just cited those statistics about the Hadassah hospital? Does it like the why is it important or not important to know the history of your people, your country or whatever?
Noam
What’s your take on it?
Nuseir
I’m conflicted on this, and really, this is such a hard question. I’m conflicted on history. Half of me loves history. I made a full hundred day historical series with AI on just going back in time to to understand the world, and my other half of me absolutely hates history because a lot of people are stuck in it. So the way I view history is that, it is something you learn about, but it’s not something you should get stuck in.
Nuseir
So read history carefully or tread carefully as you go through history books, because. 80% of my society is stuck in 1948, their brains, everything about them is 1948. Their technological, their technology knowledge, 1948, their history knowledge, 1940.
Noam
Eight, the year that they called the Nakba. Growing up.
Nuseir
My friends did. My friends.
Noam
Did for catastrophe. And it’s the it’s the year 1948 when news I was speaking about is in the year 1948, Israel.
Nuseir
If somebody’s listening to this podcast and doesn’t know this, they shouldn’t.
Noam
That’s a problem.
Nuseir
Yeah, I.
Nuseir
Guess Skip.
Noam
Okay. And Palestinian Arabs either were expelled or fled, and then 150,000 or so remained in Israel. That’s your family?
Nuseir
Yes. Look, this is.
Noam
How I stuck in 48, you’re saying?
Nuseir
Yeah. The second foray, they want to go back to 48 with the key to the house. You know the reason I love history, that’s the half of me that loves it is because you learn about other people’s disasters. And when you read about the India-Pakistan massive migration waves in 1947, where roughly, I think 15 million people or so had to like, you know, switch size Hindu, that country, Islam, this country.
Nuseir
Right. And then 200 million Muslims got stuck in India.
Noam
Do like history. You do a lot of history.
Nuseir
No, no, I love it. Half of me loves history.
Noam
Only half. But the other half is like, don’t be stuck in the.
Nuseir
Past, have absolutely hates history. I think it’s the worst thing for humanity. Move on. Just move on. Really? Really. It’s it’s it’s it’s it’s we can build a part of my dream is to, like, have that X-Men kind of thing and just, like, erase everybody’s memory for the last 77 years and wake up. And what can we do together in Israel and Palestine?
Nuseir
It’s just a lot of them are stuck.
Noam
Okay, wait a few random questions. One is, what do you want to change the Israel’s national anthem?
Nuseir
Two oh, that’s a great question. I don’t know, because I don’t.
Nuseir
I think it should stay the same. But I think you can add one sentence that makes Ashkenazi, Sephardi Sephardic Jews more included and Arabs more included. Just had one sentence. Yeah. And, you know, I had a clause, for God’s sake. And like, I’m not, by the way, I’m I’m not here as a guy who’s trying to be like, oh, no justice, no peace.
Nuseir
Like, I’m not that guy. I’m the guy who’s like, I don’t care about justice, I just care about peace.
Noam
It’s so funny you say that because in in Palestinian society and in Israeli society, they say there’s a there’s a line in the song that I love in Hebrew it’s called they say Shalom. Everyone thinks of peace. No one speaks about.
Nuseir
And in the Jewish side.
Noam
Everyone speaks about peace. No one speaks about justice. Then I started thinking it’s a zero sum game. If both.
Noam
People.
Noam
Are talking about no one talks. Everyone talks about peace. No one talks about justice because everyone wants justice. No justice, no peace. No it’s no peace. No justice.
Nuseir
That’s a mind bend. This is justice is justice is my least favorite word. I’m anti justice. I told you I’m going to get canceled after this podcast.
Noam
Good. You’re fine.
Nuseir
I mean, I don’t know if this is becoming a spaghetti thoughts, but but truly, I don’t believe in seeking justice because I’ve never seen a price for a human life. You know the concept of justice, it means that you can justify the death of a human with something else. How can you justify the death of a person? What is the price of one Jewish person dead?
Nuseir
6 million Jewish people. Did 1 million Palestinians dead? What’s the what’s the price? There is none. It’s such a subjective thing. Just as subjective. I have interest in justice. This is why I want to move on. Yes. And I don’t know. And by the way, I think a lot of people want to move on. And on the Arab side, they’re just too scared to say it.
Noam
Left less exploration with you.
Nuseir
Oh my God, let’s go.
Nuseir
This is a you’ve done your homework.
Noam
We always do. I, I’m interested to know. And you did this spirituality challenge.
Nuseir
Question number six.
Noam
You did six months studying six religions. Yeah. You studied Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, nativism. Which is your favorite?
Nuseir
It’s your religion. Whoever asked the question I say is your religion.
Noam
I was wondering, with atheism, so many Jews are atheists.
Nuseir
That’s interesting.
Noam
Do you know that?
Nuseir
Yes. It is also Buddhist, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you should answer that question.
Noam
You explore Judaism for six months.
Nuseir
I didn’t explore the atheist part of Judaism, I’ll tell you that much. I expressed the most religious part of Judaism. I went to the Asians and,
Noam
He was like.
Nuseir
Well, you don’t give me a rabbi vibes.
Noam
Not bad. Okay.
Nuseir
Are you a rabbi?
Noam
No.
Nuseir
I’m good. Are you a rabbi? Are you actually not good.
Noam
Teacher.
Nuseir
I like that I. Love Rabbi Dover was awesome. Incredibly human. I think I viewed like, are they good on camera? That’s actually number one, I think. Go to camera, have a dedicated their lives to studying their religion. And can they play the part. You know that’s really it. You know and and are they mainstream enough in their thoughts.
Nuseir
Because I didn’t want to take a French person.
Noam
French is not is not reflective. Yeah. So why I want to know why you think so many Jews are atheists.
Nuseir
I actually don’t know.
Noam
From really from.
Nuseir
No, no, that’s not that. My, my study was about Jews who believe in one God. Hashem. Right. That’s it, I.
Noam
Didn’t.
Nuseir
Oh, you know, by the way, my my representative of atheism was, you know, Harari. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he was. And I went to the Galapagos Islands because that’s where Darwin started this whole movement. I don’t know. I really don’t know. I, I cannot answer that. Look, I can try to find an answer, but I don’t think the audience wants me to finagle answers anything.
Nuseir
Is that a Jewish word? Sounds like one. Yeah. The way.
Noam
It sounds like.
Nuseir
Yeah.
Noam
Maybe it is. I have no idea. It sounds like it should be. I think it has something to do with, you know, you had the unique aspect of Judaism. You had, as I think you said, arguing. Was it arguing?
Nuseir
Yes. To.
Noam
So I don’t know if that’s the unique thing of Judaism. It might be, but there’s there’s two different stories in the Hebrew Bible, and I think one has animated Judaism more than the other.
Nuseir
How fitting that there are two stories now. One, do you see the irony?
Noam
Exactly. There’s a story of Abraham and Sodom where he’s bargaining and arguing with God to be like, do not destroy these people. And then there’s the other story of Abraham with Isaac and his son, and he’s obedient to God, willing to sacrifice his own son. And there to.
Nuseir
The Muslim side is that story.
Noam
But it’s not. It’s Ibrahim and.
Nuseir
And his son. Yes. Obedient to I’m going to sacrifice my son to.
Noam
My God. I think one of the special things about Judaism is this dialectic of having both the story of Abraham and Saddam and Abraham and the binding of Isaac, and it’s the it’s the combination of those two that is the Jewish story. It’s this willingness to, on the one hand, submit and the other, and the willingness to debate and to explore and to do all of that.
Noam
Now when one goes up and one goes down, then I think that’s where, like atheist can emerge. Because when you’re constantly debating, constantly arguing, constantly wanting to see every side of an issue, you might come to a conclusion that’s like, oh, you know what? I’m able to I have no boundaries, there are no borders. And I can see whatever it is that I want to see.
Nuseir
So it’s the debate nature.
Noam
I think it’s it’s I think it’s it’s the curiosity. I think I think there’s a curiosity.
Nuseir
So are you saying curiosity leads you to atheism? A lot of people will take offense to that. You just canceled yourself.
Noam
I think that curiosity means that there’s there are the way they used to say, a heretic in English. The coffee in Hebrew or chorus is another way, the way they would say the English is free thinker. That’s been translated it.
Nuseir
Yeah. That’s so you know, I take such offense to the term free thinker. My friend is a free thinker in Singapore. And whenever I say, what’s your religion? He says, I’m a free thinker. I respond to him, well, I guess I’m an enslaved thinker. What is a free thinker?
Noam
It’s not a good translation. That’s what.
Nuseir
I’m saying. It’s terrible translation.
Noam
But I think that the unique thing of Judaism has historically been this willingness to be curious. There’s willingness to explore this willingness to debate combined with or married to this willingness to submit, this willing, this willingness to worship. And I think that that, that that combination of those two is the Jewish experience. Whereas in Islam and I’m not I don’t know enough.
Noam
So all my listeners who are Muslim, who don’t, I don’t know enough. So I’m like, I caveat in my.
Nuseir
Way out of how many, how many muslin ministers do you think you have? Really?
Noam
Yeah, I get emailed a lot from my from.
Nuseir
If you’re a muslin listener to this, please email him.
Noam
Yeah. Please.
Nuseir
Please tell him what you thought of this podcast. Tell him you loved it.
Noam
But I think that in Islam they have more of a culture or you’re Muslim, right?
Nuseir
So correct. I was born Muslim.
Noam
You’re born?
Noam
Are you Muslim?
Nuseir
I mean, yes, on paper I’m just not. I’m not. I’m not practicing. No, I don’t think for health reasons I don’t do coffee.
Noam
Or 44%.
Nuseir
Done with.
Noam
Life.
Nuseir
Every eight months.
Noam
But you you think the average expectancy of a male in America is still 76.
Nuseir
Years old? Yes, yes. I mean, I know it’s complicated. You have to change it. Anyway, he’s asking about my t shirt, which I don’t change about the percentage of my life that’s over. Yes, but it doesn’t really translate an audio.
Noam
Well, no.
Nuseir
I know, but most people.
Noam
So I was gonna say that with with Muslims, there’s more in the religion. There’s more of a focus on the story of the binding, more so than the story of the arguing. Correct. And I think that that is the difference between it’s not better or worse. It’s a difference that there’s a submission to Allah in a different way.
Nuseir
Absolutely. It’s in the name. It was more people than Islam is means submit. Yeah, right. It’s lumped. Israel means wrestle with God, right? Israel.
Noam
We named our daughter because of the the verses says he’s Sarita him the. Which means that because you struggle. That’s when the Jews go from Ya’akov to El to the name. Yes, yes. I read you struggled not virtual means and you overcame and you and you were. Doesn’t matter that part. It’s the struggle. So we named our daughter Sarita.
Nuseir
Wow. And it’s your.
Noam
Oh, my.
Nuseir
Lord.
Noam
Is amazing. Delicious. It’s so difficult.
Nuseir
That’s really interesting that you wanted to almost, like, build that up in your kids identity.
Noam
It’s about the problem. You got to go through it.
Nuseir
You know, the most popular name in Islam is Muhammad. It’s everybody’s name because it’s almost like a form of submission. We all get the same name. And so we don’t have like, you don’t allow for like crazy variations of that name. So he this I say this with great sadness. I think there is this thing where it’s like, you know, you put two Jews in a, in a, in a room and you get three opinions.
Nuseir
Yeah. But I think if you put 2 million. Yeah, Arabs, you get one opinion.
Noam
Arabs not Muslims.
Nuseir
Arabs, Muslims. Sometimes I struggle.
Noam
With this.
Nuseir
Yeah.
Noam
And then I have one last question. But this is the last idea that I want to share with you. I heard this idea, I love it. The concept of two Jews, three opinions is not that there are two Jews. My gosh, they’re so argumentative. There are three different opinions. It’s this. It’s that there’s one Jew who has an opinion.
Noam
A second Jew has another opinion. What emerges from those two opinions?
Nuseir
Wow.
Noam
There’s a there’s a synthesis.
Nuseir
That’s some mental gymnastics I like. I like it okay. No, but I want to comment on the religion thing, I want to my favorite religion is your religion and not Judaism. It is everybody’s favorite religion and it’s really, really important. Note in the sand I love Islam. I love Judaism, I love Buddhism, I love atheism, I love it all.
Nuseir
Yeah, of course Jesus has a great message. I don’t know what you think about Jesus, but.
Noam
The great message, great messages.
Nuseir
Yeah. No, it’s great.
Noam
The way the religion 100%, but the way the religion developed over time was in conflict with Judaism initially. Yeah, that hurt us for sure. So.
Nuseir
But you know, but but that’s what I learned after studying six religions for six months, which I urge every single listener do what I did one month by the most popular book. Okay, so whatever book it is doesn’t have to be the Quran or the Torah or whatever. It can just be like a book talking about it. Okay, then go to the holiest site to really understand the humans.
Nuseir
Okay, so Judaism, go to Jerusalem, Buddhism, go to Nepal. If you go to Gallup Island and just immerse yourself for one month into every belief system, you this will be the best thing you do in your entire life. Because after that I’ve realized,
Nuseir
You and I are equally right and equally wrong. And it’s really freed me. It freed me from organized religion. It freed me. I, I can feel like I can fly above organized religion or and I can just see it, respect it, love it, learn from it, and move on, but never get stuck in it. It’s just like history never gets stuck in history.
Nuseir
Danger.
Noam
What would you say to people like me who are part of the organization? Is that is that when I do something wrong with your opinion?
Nuseir
No, I don’t think you’re doing something wrong, but I, I do think you need to spend a month studying Buddhism. Like with a with with Nata.
Noam
What does it do.
Nuseir
For me? Because you share this planet with seven, eight other billion people. And you, you should show interest in the 1 billion Indians who believe in 30 million gods and try to understand why are we fundamentally so different and what can I learn from them? So I think everybody in organized religion should go with greed to other religions and learn from them and steal some of their concepts, because I do believe most of these religions came out as variations of each other.
Nuseir
So like some argue, and I don’t know if I believe this or not. So ism was the first monotheistic religions, then Judaism came great, then from Judaism came out a simplified Jerusalem. Christianity awesome was almost like a merge of Buddhism and Judaism because of trade and the Silk Road back then. These are all thoughts and ideas and could be true, could be not.
Nuseir
Then Islam came and built up on top of Jewish and Christian ideals, right? And built his own version for the Arabian world, right. With your own localized language. And then after that came thousands of other religions. Mormonism, Baha’is, Ahmadiyya.
Noam
You. She won’t, but she loves it. Great.
Nuseir
So what is it? It’s just a variation of Islam.
Noam
She loves. You have a peaceful nature of it.
Nuseir
Great.
Noam
So she’s saying to us.
Nuseir
Except for the audience. So. So you don’t get canceled, but canceled. So have you spent a month studying Hinduism?
Noam
I haven’t spent a month doing anything.
Nuseir
Why? Well, okay.
Noam
That is. No.
Nuseir
Why do you think you’re right? Why are you going so deep in one category? The thing you were born with?
Noam
Well, I actually one of the things I love about my religion and my people is actually the is the marriage of faith and doubt together. Doubt is a big part of the way we’re taught. Or I was taught to learn and study.
Nuseir
How much of your life have you spent learning the religion of a billion other humans? Hinduism.
Noam
I haven’t spent a lot of time studying Hinduism, okay? A lot of time studying in Islam, but not not Hinduism.
Nuseir
Yeah. So I really also see this, like, sort of like Western monotheistic. It’s like God has to be one, God has to be one. And it’s like. And then it’s like, oh, well, three.
Noam
In one. It’s actually there’s, there’s the God of good and the God of evil. And so it’s Mazda and that whole, yeah, that whole story. So which is a very binary world, Judaism is different than that, which is this ethical monotheism, not just monotheism, but ethical.
Nuseir
Okay, great. But eastern religions have given me an incredible.
Nuseir
Eyesight, vision, understanding of the world, understanding of, you know, I really, really this is probably the first time I’m frustrated in this whole podcast. Can you after everything we talked about frustrating because yeah, the western side of the of of the planet monotheistic side, let’s say from Arabia to the left does not show any interest in eastern religions.
Nuseir
And, and eastern religions really can be a source of happiness.
Noam
What should I read? What do you recommend?
Nuseir
I think start with Buddhism, which has simplified Hinduism.
Noam
But what should I oh.
Nuseir
I forgot, I forgot the name of the thing, but I forgot the name of the book.
Noam
You know that?
Nuseir
Yes, of course, one.
Noam
For.
Nuseir
Be well, well be, of course, because Buddhism is so great. Yeah, I think Muslims should do the same and Christian should do.
Noam
The same for for a certain reason. It’s part of the exploration. I think there’s a to to see something that’s without boundaries.
Nuseir
I think Buddhism helps you in your today life, and I think monotheistic religions help you in your afterlife. That’s why you need both, because Buddhism has really helped me in my to day to day life, much more than monotheistic religions.
Noam
So do you view the purpose of religion as to help you?
Nuseir
Yeah.
Noam
It’s not the reverse.
Nuseir
You help the religion.
Noam
Yeah. The purpose of you just said it. The name Islam is to serve. It’s to sub to submit. I. There are two different ways to view religion. Is the purpose of religion to serve you? Or is the purpose of religion for you to serve God, the God or their God?
Nuseir
Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, I definitely think it’s it’s, it’s a religion is here to help you. It’s it’s almost like an inevitable. It is what it is. It is what it is. It’s an inevitable outcome, religion, inevitable outcome. When humans face such hardships, they must invent a story. And their story has to be an all powerful thing beyond me.
Nuseir
And that’s that’s the summary of thousands of religions.
Noam
Very well. No.
Nuseir
I really, really loved the atheist.
Noam
I think we got an answer.
Nuseir
No no.
Noam
No no no.
Nuseir
No.
Noam
No no no. It’s your religion. It’s your. I’m sorry.
Noam
Inspiration. One guy. Cool. Dude.
Nuseir
That was super fun.
Noam
I love comforting with you.
Nuseir
Oh, yeah. Yeah, we.
Noam
Disagree back and forth.
Nuseir
We could go for hours.
Noam
I’m gonna end with this, and you can say whatever you want, but you’ve done really good things for the world. Thank you. Really good. No no no no no, I got you made money. You have a great girlfriend. You have a great life. You live in Miami. You’re doing great things.
Nuseir
I’m not a Miami boy.
Noam
To be clear, you’re not in Miami.
Nuseir
I’m not on everybody.
Noam
You’re not part of the manosphere.
Nuseir
No no no no no.
Noam
But you’ve done you’ve done really good things for the world. Thank you. You’ve opened people’s eyes. You’ve given people reason to believe something. You’ve given people an education. You’ve taught people more history than probably anyone in the world.
Nuseir
No, no, no. Well there’s money. Khan Academy has done a great job.
Noam
You reach that, you have. I think it’s done. I think you and you do it in a way that sensitive. In a way that’s empathic. Thank you. Shows that you care about other people. And I think it’s really freaking awesome. And most importantly to me, for just one day, you’ve made me cool in the eyes of my token realtime.
Nuseir
Yes, that makes it all worth it. Thank you to the listeners and thank you to you for a wonderful conversation. Thank you.